Author Topic: 1992 Olympic Torch Privy Panda  (Read 1226 times)

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Offline Jeru

1992 Olympic Torch Privy Panda
« on: 2013 Aug 17, 09:45:46 PM »
1992 Silver China Panda 1 oz Proof Coin Olympic Torch Privy NGC Authenticated | eBay
Verified certification information for 3623763-008 1992P CHINA PANDA
Verified certification information for 4089796-001 1992P CHINA PANDA

NGC gave the coin on this listing a UC and COUNTERSTAMP grade.  The two certification number looking that can be seen on the listing can be searched in NGC cert verification.  According to the ebay seller, NGC did not encapsulate this coin because of the torch mark stamp but in a bigger and bolder font the seller said NGC authenticated this coin.

Authenticity

I also found this discussion in the china-mint.info forum; 1992 Silver Proof with "Torch"

With all of these, I've decided to still add the specimens and sighting for this coin, and the screenshot of NGC cert verification results, ebay listing, and the also the coin images on the listing.

I say go for it, save full resolution original photographs of fakes if the photos aren't already on NGC's site. - How will CC handle fake coins?

But I don't know if the coin is fake.  All I know is that it is very unusual so I saved the photos from the listing to CC.

CCS59296: 1992 1 oz silver panda proof mirror leaf NGC 0 - Sale ongoing for 0.99 USD on 18 August 2013
CC30204: 1992 1 oz silver panda proof mirror leaf NGC 0
CC30203: 1992 1 oz silver panda proof mirror leaf NGC 0

And since I don't really know if the coin is fake or not, I added them as normal specimens and sightings under CCT811: 1992 1 oz silver panda proof mirror leaf.
"...but the greatest of these is love." -1 Corinthians 13:13
 

Offline badon

Re: 1992 Olympic Torch Privy Panda
« Reply #1 on: 2013 Aug 17, 10:15:24 PM »
Those "privy" marks are done by coin dealers, not the mint. They're basically just damage, and "counterstamp" should be treated as a problem.
 

Offline Jeru

Re: 1992 Olympic Torch Privy Panda
« Reply #2 on: 2013 Aug 17, 10:24:42 PM »
So, what I did is just okay?  I just need to add "counterstamp" as a problem to those two specimen.  But how about the two NGC looking certification numbers?  So NGC gave that coin certification numbers, two certification numbers? 
"...but the greatest of these is love." -1 Corinthians 13:13
 

Offline badon

Re: 1992 Olympic Torch Privy Panda
« Reply #3 on: 2013 Aug 17, 11:32:39 PM »
Those are 2 different coins, so I think the sighting needs a problem that indicates 2 coins are shown, but only 1 is being sold. I think last time I saw that happen, it needed a "Deceptive" problem, and as always, an explanation of what the problem is. Now that I think of it, I think the sighting forms need a field to add the explanation, but that's another subject.

NGC appears to have authenticated these coins, but they're not eligible for certification, and thus encapsulation because NGC doesn't normally certify deliberately damaged coins. If the damage were intended to deceive, then a genuine coin could be altered to appear like a more expensive coin. That would need an "Altered" problem, and would probably classify the specimen as a fake. We haven't seen a coin like that yet in the Chinese coin market, but they're everywhere in the American coin market.

Yes, it's good to enter the info for this unusual sighting. Since it's not a fake, it's not critical to get the bets photos possible, so only enough needs to be taken to verify the certification numbers in the photos. You can ask the seller for permission to use his photos, but I wouldn't bother. These coins aren't very important, so just take a screenshot of the listing and the NGC verification pages, and then make some images that show the certification numbers, and that should be enough. Then, if anyone wants to know what happens to an altered coin that gets sent to NGC, they can refer to this sighting for all the details.

Excellent research, Jeru.
 

Offline Jeru

Re: 1992 Olympic Torch Privy Panda
« Reply #4 on: 2013 Aug 18, 12:54:41 AM »
CCS59296: 1992 1 oz silver panda proof mirror leaf NGC 0 - Sale ongoing for 0.99 USD on 18 August 2013
CC30204: 1992 1 oz silver panda proof mirror leaf NGC 0
CC30203: 1992 1 oz silver panda proof mirror leaf NGC 0

I have already added the necessary "problem" to the specimens and sighting.

As for the screenshots and coin photos...Well, my first plan was to just make a screenshot of the listings and the NGC cert verification results.  But then I remember Vsheilley telling me that the certification number needs to be visible when doing the screenshot.  I tried doing that but I have two certification numbers that I need to be visible for proof.  So, since I have to get the photos in the listing, for proof, I decided to just take them all.  They are all in CCS59296 now.  :)

So, can I just ask... what made you say that the seller has actually listed two different coins? or has uploaded photos of two different coins?  Is that because of the two different certification numbers? 
"...but the greatest of these is love." -1 Corinthians 13:13