Author Topic: China Nanjing 2017 3 g gold panda the first to be recognized as a non-fiat coin  (Read 1647 times)

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Offline badon

The People's Republic of China (PRC) will be the first nation in the world to recognize fiat and non-fiat as a defining trait of a coin. Coins were invented more than 2600 years ago, and to this day, numismatists have not understood what it means to have a fiat denomination - or not. Instead, they have been calling non-fiat coins by names that almost sound like baby talk. My favorite is "round". People will literally interrupt you to say "it's not a coin, it's a round". Really? It's round? Great, thank you for pointing that out, haha. More ranting about this topic in the past is here:

Lies: A coin coined by coining is not a coin if it’s not a fiat coin

The good news is I predicted the above idiocy would someday be seen for what it is - a bunch of a babbling idiots that have no idea what they're talking about, even when it's right in front of them. Well, here is the beginning of the end for all of that, continue reading...

China's Nanjing Mint will be coining a Nanjing 2017 3 g gold panda soon, and the COA samples of the COA show that they are planning to officially acknowledge that a coin coined by coining is still a coin even if it's not a fiat coin.  Instead of the word "medal", or worse, "round", the COA will call the coin a "non fiat coin". This means China will be the first nation in the world to recognize the existence or absence of a fiat denomination on a coin. Also, the Nanjing Mint will be the first numismatic authority (besides me) in the 2600 year history history of numismatics to fully understand that a literally meaningless fiat number is not required for a coin to become a coin.

Thanks to andrewlee10 from numicconnectioncom (new, ending, sold) for providing the image, and convincing the Nanjing Mint to do the right thing. The image of the COA below comes from this topic:

Gold and Silver Temple of Heaven panda - top design, engraving & technology

This development will probably have a positive effect on the value of coins that were previously ignored solely because nobody put a fiat number on them. If you haven't made your investments, you better do it now before this article gets moved out of the members-only pre-publication drafts (PPD) area, and becomes public information.
« Last Edit: 2017 Aug 23, 11:12:18 PM by badon »
 
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Offline Y7ASyxC

COA samples of the COA show that they are planning to officially acknowledge that a coin coined by coining is still a coin even if it's not a fiat coin.  Instead of the word "medal", or worse, "round", the COA will call the coin a "non fiat coin". This means China will be the first nation in the world to recognize the existence or absence of a fiat denomination on a coin.

Wow, that's amazing. numismatic history being made and announced on this very forum :) Incredibly exciting. Thanks badon and andrewlee.
  • never argue with idiots
 

Offline Y7ASyxC

Mintage 118? Please tell me i can preorder. I have to come up with a way to pay, i'm gonna order a bunch of crypto debit cards tonight, maybe some of them will actually work.

edit: I haven't even read the parent thread. Must do so tonight despite the difficult political situation taking so much of my time.
  • never argue with idiots
 

Offline pandamonium

Dang, thru the past few years I traded a bunch of my precious silver pandas w/ Yuan denomination for (medals) or non fiat due to lower mintage.    The mintage was not even close.     I guess badon was finally right on something!      It will take awhile for the market to digest this and make a adjustment.     Thanks Badon and Andrew....   
In my humble opinion the post by Peter on CCF about the Chinese to stop exporting 1911 and earlier fiat/non fiat COULD be another game changer.     This means the Empire small graded silver dragons like the 1890-1908 20 C Kwangtung or others could see increased value.   I have posted about them for almost a year now.    Time will tell but i think all pre 1911 will cause the market to make a adjustment too.....

No worries Y7ASyxc about your posts on barbarian crimes in Finland.    It is life threatening so a very high priority.   Hopefully my info and suggestions will help the world understand why.......
 

Offline badon

I suspect a lot of fiat collectors will soon wish they had diversified into some non-fiat also.
 

Offline badon

In my humble opinion the post by Peter on CCF about the Chinese to stop exporting 1911 and earlier fiat/non fiat COULD be another game changer.     This means the Empire small graded silver dragons like the 1890-1908 20 C Kwangtung or others could see increased value.   I have posted about them for almost a year now.    Time will tell but i think all pre 1911 will cause the market to make a adjustment too.....

Restrictions usually result in people shunning the entire market. That's why China's coin market didn't start to rise until 2003 or 2004, when the last restrictions on precious metals were eliminated. If I remember correctly, Those last restrictions only applied to specific kinds of trades on the commodity markets, but people still shunned the market because of it. No one wants to invest in something they can't sell.

There are billions of non-fiat coins in a non-fiat era, but there are VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY few non-fiat coins in a fiat era. My article isn't published yet on this topic because I'm still acquiring coins for myself, and I fear the badon effect will make them disappear before I'm able to get them for myself. But, registered CCF readers can view my pre-publication draft (PPD), and the images there will show you what I'm talking about. The bulk of China's most valuable coins were not minted 100 years ago, they were minted (literally?) yesterday.

The world's first officially recognized non-fiat coin has a mintage of only 118, and it will probably cost you next to nothing to get one, if you buy it before the rest of the world finds out about this news. The best part? It's GOLD!
 

Offline badon

 

Offline badon

 

Offline badon

Mintage 118? Please tell me i can preorder. I have to come up with a way to pay, i'm gonna order a bunch of crypto debit cards tonight, maybe some of them will actually work.

edit: I haven't even read the parent thread. Must do so tonight despite the difficult political situation taking so much of my time.

Yes, the mintage is indeed only 118. I'm sure you can work out something that will allow you to get one before they're gone. However, there are a lot of people who will never be able to own one. I hope future issues have mintages high enough to meet demand. It seems the Nanjing Mint doesn't care whether you buy their coins or not, because all-too-often they sell out in pre-orders, and almost nobody even learns they exist. In the English-speaking West it is said that "it's not what you know, it's who you know". China is very much into personal networking as a way to do business. People who don't read CCF, /r/ChineseCoins, etc will not have an opportunity to buy them.
 
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Offline Y7ASyxC

Yes, the mintage is indeed only 118. I'm sure you can work out something that will allow you to get one before they're gone.

I actually woke up to the fact today that i can sell crypto directly for paypal topup via localbitcoins. I had never thought of this, until now i had issues with getting money to paypal because i am not allowed to use regular banking system to transfer funds to my paypal account. Sooner or later all of you will face this same issue because:

A: KYC/AML is a pretense for total monetary fascism by the failing western governments (they will attempt to steal all funds from citizens as they go down) and

B: paypal has become a political entity siding with the leftist insanity, they are now banning accounts of conservative white males on a daily basis. It's the same ideology now tearing down hundreds of years old statues in the United States because some lesbian transgender gook says he/she/it are offended. ( source: recent tucker carlson tonight shows and other, search online, i can't, it's too disgusting. ) This means paypal will soon be dead.

But as for now, i believe i'm going to be able to use paypal this way to acquire as many MCC as possible before the final collapse.

  • never argue with idiots
 

Offline badon

I guess badon was finally right on something!

I couldn't let that statement stand unchallenged, so I updated the chart that shows one of my most awesome predictions still proving correct to this day:

Re: Prediction 2015 September 23 of "sharp reversal" of gold downward trend:


It's like relativity or something. Keep testing it, and it's still right. The trend reversal happened exactly when I said it would, and it is still continuing. I will be curious to see when the next trend change comes. For now, the trend is your friend, so follow the momentum if you want profits.
 

Offline andrewlee10

Finally done and ahead of schedule.

Please note this was carefully discussed among the designer Cheng Chao, technical director, Planchent manufacturer and the production director of best effect and size of the first bimetallic precious metal non fiat coin of Nanjing Mint. They would like to make this as their signature item and build up their reputation by it. I am so glad that they agreed to work with us closely instead of others for all Nanjing Mint latest research and development of the minting technology. However, this also come with the costs ;).

After the month and months discussion and testing they decide the gold diameter is 10mm with 3 times of 1 g gold thickness in order to get a strong strike and higher relief effect. This also empower them to show the latest bimetallic technology like the 35 th panda anniversary coin.

We also discuss in bigger gold like 8 g and above which the inner diameter of gold can be bigger. However many collectors will have no money to buy it so we decide to forgo this concept and idea and work with the limitation.

Cheng Choa has signed XX of the signature of this limited 118 mintage first Nanjing Bimetallic precious metal panda non fiat coin. On top of it, it is the first non fiat coin recognize by one of the China official mint. It stated in coa as NON FIAT COIN instead of medal. This door is opened by our team and many efforts for getting this recognition. It worth the effort even some other private sponsors do nothings BUT might get the benefits of our efforts of getting Nanjing Mint to formally recognize this as non fiat coin instead of MEDAL.

The private mints and other private sponsor of medal likely to copy the same success and stated in coa as non fiat coin soon ;)

Offline andrewlee10

Mintage 118? Please tell me i can preorder. I have to come up with a way to pay, i'm gonna order a bunch of crypto debit cards tonight, maybe some of them will actually work.

edit: I haven't even read the parent thread. Must do so tonight despite the difficult political situation taking so much of my time.

Yes, the mintage is indeed only 118. I'm sure you can work out something that will allow you to get one before they're gone. However, there are a lot of people who will never be able to own one. I hope future issues have mintages high enough to meet demand. It seems the Nanjing Mint doesn't care whether you buy their coins or not, because all-too-often they sell out in pre-orders, and almost nobody even learns they exist. In the English-speaking West it is said that "it's not what you know, it's who you know". China is very much into personal networking as a way to do business. People who don't read CCF, /r/ChineseCoins, etc will not have an opportunity to buy them.

I aware of this situation so we decide to disperse the coin during selling. Example xx quantity available for different region. XX quantity allocated during pre-order and sell, XX quantity allow for one customer to prevent hoarding, XX quantity available in omp and NGC after minting in ebay and so on.

However you will need to pay much higher and no bundle deal or free gift if miss the pre-order/sell.