Author Topic: 2016 copper nickel brass trimetallic Beijing Coin Expo and Martin Weiss panda  (Read 14374 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline badon

dragonzeng168 (new, ending, sold) just showed me some nice new coins in his inventory:

Shanghai Mint 2016 Trimetallic Beijing International Coin Expo non-fiat coin Mintage1000, $150.

2016 Trimetallic Panda Gold Coins 35th Anniversary Martin Weiss non-fiat coin Mintage999, $115.

The Beijing expo is the Shanghai Mint's commemorative for the show. It appears it competes directly with the Shenyang Mint's lunar panda for the Beijing expo, discussed here:

2017 8 g silver lunar rooster panda Beijing expo, copper-nickel brass bimetallic, initially selling for $60 for silver and $30 for brass, both with mintage 1000.

I'm a bit confused by the dates, because the expo happened in 2016, but the Shenyang Mint chose to put a 2017 date on theirs. I'm not sure why. In any case, they're both official, and the best part is the Shenyang Mint is getting serious about marketing lunar pandas, which is very good for the lunar panda series they started in 2015.

You'll notice the Shanghai coin is a LOT more expensive than the Shenyang coins, but it has the same 1000 mintage. I think part of that is because the Shanghai Mint has successfully convinced everyone they should pay more for their products, because they're the Shanghai Mint. Basically, they're exploiting the only coin investing fundamental that can beat rarity: Popularity.

Even at 3 times the price of the Shenyang version, the $150 for the Shanghai coin is still probably too low, considering the fact other important expo coins with mintages that low can sell for thousands of dollars. Most recently, the 2016 ANA Anaheim pandas have been very impressive. In the past, the 1984 1 oz silver panda Hong Kong expo with a mintage of 1000 is a good example of how high prices can go.

I'm placing my bets on the Shenyang coins with the lower price, but I might decide to acquire the Shanghai version to complete the set. We'll see how it goes.

The Martin Weiss panda is privately minted, but dragonzeng168 said "the materials" for it came from the Shanghai mint. I'm not sure how important that is, but dragonzeng168 said he's keeping them in his inventory.
« Last Edit: 2016 Nov 12, 10:52:00 AM by badon »
 

Offline badon

More photos...
 

Offline badon

I asked dragonzeng168 why the Shanghai version of the 2016 Beijing expo commemorative is so much more expensive than the Shenyang version. He said only 100 specimens were sold at the Beijing expo, and the remaining 900 were given away as gifts. He says he feels lucky to have gotten 6 specimens from a "strong source" that has good connections with the mint. He has 1 on ebay now in original mint packaging (OMP), and the remaining 5 he will send in for grading.

dragonzeng168 says the source he bought the Martin Weiss pandas from claims the actual mintage is only 300, which is a lot less than the authorized mintage of 1000. He also says the specimen shown on the right on the wood tabletop is the piedfort version, that has an authorized mintage of 99. Attached to this post is another photo that shows the difference in thickness. dragonzeng168 says he will have more photos tomorrow.
 

Offline pandamonium

Could the Martin Weiss non-fiat coin be called a "God of Sales"?       OK a bit far fetched to be called a God non-fiat coin but his contributions resulted with a US citizen being featured on a Chinese non-fiat coin.    How rare is that?.........there are a few others......    think about it, how about the "God of Marketing MCC"!.......

Edit by badon: medal = non-fiat coin.
« Last Edit: 2016 Nov 12, 10:51:24 AM by badon »
 

Offline trouble

Will it be another Macao expo non fiat situation and history repeat ? I only saw 1 pc at china weeks ago at RMB 538

 
 

Offline badon

Will it be another Macao expo non fiat situation and history repeat ? I only saw 1 pc at china weeks ago at RMB 538

Can you explain? I don't know what you mean about the Macao expo. What history?

538 RMB is $78.85 USD
 

Offline trouble

Will it be another Macao expo non fiat situation and history repeat ? I only saw 1 pc at china weeks ago at RMB 538

Can you explain? I don't know what you mean about the Macao expo. What history?

538 RMB is $78.85 USD

Dragon selling price is very very low for the Martin Weiss.

Macao expo 1st has make a big news in media : newspaper, magazine, association newsletter and forums abd other marketing activities like auction of the rare one for donation to certain non profit organisation, F1 linkage news, grand opening by government official, VVIP from government official and world well known coin collector with those rare non-fiat coins as VVIP gift.

They pay all those costs for marketing which lead to big publication and many try to get the non-fiat coin. They release a small portion of those non-fiat coin during coin show at release price to cover the non-fiat coin production cost and some marketing cost. Than, those big portion of it distribute to few internal circle selected dealers in Macao, Hong Kong, Japan and USA to hype the market and charge super high price to profit. They test the candy at first expo, However, the well known white spot by shanghai mint also give them a bit step back which lead to slower sell after the hype BUT price still stable because they control the supply and dealers very well rather than like the classical garden. They also face another issue was one of the group member come with another Macao expo non-fiat coin to compete with them. BUT they KO the sponsor by their marketing activities and the sponsor still hoard the non-fiat coin and unsold till now LOL. They successfully win 2 major battles. They copy same model for Macao expo 2 and 3. Macao expo 2 still obtain okay result and 3 has change to non panda Otto bei design. After 3 years expo 1 and 2 price has down instead at least 30% to 70% and still no buyers. The popularity gone due to many not remember it and the design is so so only. Sponsor loss faith to put many marketing activities which is costly to them. This the story.

Another case is some has start the ANA panda, moon panda than HK expo panda, Love shape panda and so on.

Someone in CCF ask Peter anthony is that Love panda sponsor by him which he dare not reply at all. What this tell you? Another CCM price guide exist and promote in CCF BUT price very high with very good features as comparing to pricepedia. Competition is fierce at this moment with economic uncertainty. Dealers try to zero bidding and selling at breakeven and loss to make stock turnover to recoup cash since mid of this year. This happen to Peter Anthony too as my deduction.

I am not sure will this Martin Weiss things repeat and copy Macao expo model with less spending in Marketing BUT hoping to yield high profit. Hong Kong expo fail. Macao expo half success half fail. Panda expo by classical garden group half fail half success. ANA still unclear.

This happen to many too. Everyone is printing and betting on panda now. Buy it selectively. I still view Nanjing Mint products are more favourable.

What your view?         

Edit by badon: medal = non-fiat coin.
« Last Edit: 2016 Nov 19, 03:40:30 AM by badon »
 

Offline badon

Could the Martin Weiss non-fiat coin be called a "God of Sales"?       OK a bit far fetched to be called a God non-fiat coin but his contributions resulted with a US citizen being featured on a Chinese non-fiat coin.    How rare is that?.........there are a few others......    think about it, how about the "God of Marketing MCC"!.......

Since it's privately minted, the importance of that is quite a bit less than it would be if it were officially minted at one of the 4 government mints of China at Shanghai, Shenyang, Shenzhen, and Nanjing (SSSN). I talked to dragonzeng168 a little more about your question, and he says the Shanghai mint made the planchets (coin blanks before striking). But, the coins were struck at a private mint. Nearly always, that means it's not a good investment, because private mints are usually not historically, numismatically, or artistically important.

The few cases that are the exceptions can be very impressive, though. For example, the USA's Brasher doubloon was privately minted, by a guy in his shop. The surviving specimens are probably worth as much as $10 million, at the very top of all the most valuable coins in the world. The reason why is because, despite being privately minted, it is historically important for several reasons that didn't get widespread recognition until something like 100 years later. One of the biggest reasons is it was the first gold coin minted for the USA, by an American, in the USA, with a uniquely American design, with the eagle, etc.

Maybe the Martin Weiss coin will eventually be recognized as historically important. His connection to the 1982 pandas might have something to do with that. The best way to make it achieve its full potential is to research it, and post what you learn.
 

Offline trouble

I have no time to even wait for another 50 years.
 

Offline badon

More photos...
 

Offline badon

Photo of the other side of the COA.
 

Offline badon

Someone in CCF ask Peter anthony is that Love panda sponsor by him which he dare not reply at all. What this tell you?

Peter Anthony has been a loyal supporter of that forum since the beginning. It is not wise for them to be disrespectful to him.
 

Offline trouble

Someone in CCF ask Peter anthony is that Love panda sponsor by him which he dare not reply at all. What this tell you?

Peter Anthony has been a loyal supporter of that forum since the beginning. It is not wise for them to be disrespectful to him.

Respect or not respect is individual. Clinton or trump also your freedoom to vote.

I do not understood the reason of not replying. Might be he feel they are disrespectful or he does not want to tell the world he is the sponsor or so on. Lol this is our and my problem. I am busybody for this case.

 

Offline badon

I don't speak for Peter Anthony, but I'm guessing he correctly sensed they were baiting him into an argument so they can make false accusations of financial fraud. They will do to everyone. I have no idea why anyone with a good reputation would ever strengthen that forum by participating there.
« Last Edit: 2016 Nov 20, 07:30:50 PM by badon »
 

Offline trouble

I don't speak for Peter Anthony, but I'm guessing he correctly sensed they were baiting him into an argument so they can make accusations of financial fraud. They will do to everyone. I have no idea why anyone with a good reputation would ever strengthen that forum by participating there.

That my feeling too. However avoiding questions is diplomatic way and make others feel fishy. Why stay at some forum that you feel insecure and not you taste? How many times you can avoid those questions?

As I say this is not our problem. I just busybody and feel puzzle.
 

Offline badon

My interest is for Peter Anthony to realize those people are not his friends, and instead lend support to the many other forums that will happily welcome him any time he wants to participate, including this one. This forum is specifically favors dealers and promoters.
 

Offline badon

dragonzeng168 (new, ending, sold) just showed me some nice new coins in his inventory:

Shanghai Mint 2016 Trimetallic Beijing International Coin Expo non-fiat coin Mintage1000, $150.

[...]

luckmoneyro (new, ending, sold) has them on ebay now, dirt cheap at $75: 2016 Shanghai mint Beijing Coin Expo Three metal China Coin Non-Fiat Coin. The famous price-cutting rivalry between luckmoneyro and dragonzeng168 (new, ending, sold) shows itself again! This is good for buyers. It's very exciting to see prices drop like this.

Edit by badon: Fixed quote.
« Last Edit: 2016 Nov 26, 05:31:02 PM by badon »
 

Offline trouble

My interest is for Peter Anthony to realize those people are not his friends, and instead lend support to the many other forums that will happily welcome him any time he wants to participate, including this one. This forum is specifically favors dealers and promoters.

Wake up call might be helpful. Otherwise human being love to be in comfort zone
 

Offline trouble

dragonzeng168 (new, ending, sold) just showed me some nice new coins in his inventory:

Shanghai Mint 2016 Trimetallic Beijing International Coin Expo non-fiat coin Mintage1000, $150.

[...]

luckmoneyro (new, ending, sold) has them on ebay now, dirt cheap at $75: 2016 Shanghai mint Beijing Coin Expo Three metal China Coin Non-Fiat Coin. The famous price-cutting rivalry between luckmoneyro and dragonzeng168 (new, ending, sold) shows itself again! This is good for buyers. It's very exciting to see prices drop like this.

Lol price war

Edit by badon: Fixed quote.
« Last Edit: 2016 Nov 26, 05:29:53 PM by badon »
 

Offline badon

 

Offline badon

NGC is certifying the Martin Weiss coins:

2016 Trimetallic Panda Gold Coins 35th Anniversary Martin Weiss non-fiat coin NGC69

It's from dragonzeng168 (new, ending, sold), and he has a 68 on ebay too.