Author Topic: Video: 2016 Classical Gardens Humble Administrator's Garden in Antiqued Silver  (Read 1868 times)

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Offline Y7ASyxC

i found it:

Re: MCC LIST #183, move from LBC and continuation here at the CC forum:
2000 1/4 oz gold panda frosted ring NGC 70 in a cheap auction: 2000 China G25Y 1/4 oz Panda Frosted Ring Gold Coin MS 70.

1979 gold UN Year of the Child NGC 69 in a cheap auction: 1979 China G450Y Year Of The Child Gold Coin PF 69.

2004 2/3 oz silver lunar flower monkey NGC 70 in a cheap auction: 2004 Lunar Monkey Silver 2/3oz Flower NGC70 Great! Mintage:6800!Top Grade. From dragonzeng168 (new, ending, sold).

1986 15 g silver lunar tiger NGC 69 in a cheap auction: 1986 China S10Y Lunar Series Tiger MS 69 Ultra Cameo!!!!!.

1981 brass 1 jiao rotated dies error NGC 64 in a cheap auction: NGC Mint Error (Rotated Dies) MS64 - 1981 China Jiao FREE SHIPPING.

2016 8 g silver New Year Good Luck Fu celebration festival NGC 70 non-fiat sold in a cheap auction $23: Shanghai Mint 2016Y GoodLuck silver china coin Non-Fiat Coin-ngc69. Mintage 5000. From luckmoneyro (new, ending, sold). The seller told me he lost money on this coin. It had the wrong title keywords, so it was probably overlooked. Congratulations to the buyer for finding this coin and putting some low-ball bids on it. You never know when you're going to get lucky with a cheap auction. The fiat version that has a mintage of 1.9 million sold in a cheap auction for $73 only a few minutes before the non-fiat version: 2016 China 3Y 8 gram Silver New Year Celebration Good Fortune NGC MS70. This sale emphasizes how great of a deal the non-fiat cheap auction was!

2016 2 oz silver classical gardens Liu Yuan reverse cameo NGC 70 sold for the full Buy-It-Now asking price $270 + shipping: 2016 2 oz silver Classical Garden LIU YUAN Reverse Proof NGC 70 China Coin Non-Fiat Coin. Mintage 500. From dragonzeng168 (new, ending, sold).

2016 2 oz silver classical gardens Humble Administrator's Zhuo Zheng Yuan garden NGC 70 sold for the full Buy-It-Now asking price $270: 2016 The Humble Administrator's Garden Silver 2oz Zhuo Zheng Yuan NGC PF70.729pc. Mintage 729. From dragonzeng168 (new, ending, sold). This is one of the first certified specimens to appear on the market.

Edit by badon: Fixed quote.
« Last Edit: 2016 Oct 30, 01:30:04 PM by badon »
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Offline Y7ASyxC

2016 The Humble Administrator's Garden Silver 2oz Zhuo Zheng Yuan NGC PF70.729pc

there is the PF70, in which you can clearly see the same phenomena in the zoom over picture of the obverse.

Edit by badon: Linkify.
« Last Edit: 2016 Oct 27, 10:31:53 PM by badon »
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Offline badon

Some substances can change from invisibly clear to white and cloudy just because of a crystallization of the material. A great example of this at very low temperatures is in chocolate. The expensive chocolate is carefully proofed and tempered in a cooling process identical to the ones used for controlling the crystallization of steel at red-hot temperatures. Fine chocolate that's mirror-reflective can suddenly turn into dusty white stuff if the temperature of it changes a little bit.

If there is some kind of oily, waxy clear substance on the coins acting as a preservative, it could suddenly become visible if the temperature changes. It's not damage to the coin, it's just ugly goop on the coin that was supposed to protect it and remain invisible. If the Shanghai mint is experimenting with surface coatings, that would explain why it's showing up when it's not supposed to, and it explains why it follows the contours of a struck coin, which white spots normally don't do.

The shape of features on the coin can affect the temperature-dependent phase changes or crystallization in the preservative, just like how rain water might crystallize (freeze) on a bridge, but not on a regular road - even if the air is the same temperature in both locations, the surface the water is on might be heat and cool at different rates, which causes them to usually end up at different temperatures.

If this hypothesis is correct, it might be possible to make the preservative become invisible again, just like you can make dusty white stuff on chocolate disappear by proofing and tempering it again.

Have you asked dragonzeng168 about this? Maybe he can find out for sure if there is a surface film on the coins that is supposed to act as a preservative to prevent oxidation, toning, white spots, and other forms of corrosion. I have seen this exact thing happen in industrial anti-corrosion coatings, so I'm betting the Shanghai mint just grabbed one of those coatings, and used it on the coins. That's progress, but next they will have to figure out how to keep it invisible, or how to make it disappear again if it becomes visible.

Oh, the experiments I could do on these poor coins...
 

Offline Y7ASyxC

Some substances can change from invisibly clear to white and cloudy just because of a crystallization of the material. A great example of this at very low temperatures is in chocolate. The expensive chocolate is carefully proofed and tempered in a cooling process identical to the ones used for controlling the crystallization of steel at red-hot temperatures. Fine chocolate that's mirror-reflective can suddenly turn into dusty white stuff if the temperature of it changes a little bit.

If there is some kind of oily, waxy clear substance on the coins acting as a preservative, it could suddenly become visible if the temperature changes. It's not damage to the coin, it's just ugly goop on the coin that was supposed to protect it and remain invisible. If the Shanghai mint is experimenting with surface coatings, that would explain why it's showing up when it's not supposed to, and it explains why it follows the contours of a struck coin, which white spots normally don't do.

The shape of features on the coin can affect the temperature-dependent phase changes or crystallization in the preservative, just like how rain water might crystallize (freeze) on a bridge, but not on a regular road - even if the air is the same temperature in both locations, the surface the water is on might be heat and cool at different rates, which causes them to usually end up at different temperatures.

If this hypothesis is correct, it might be possible to make the preservative become invisible again, just like you can make dusty white stuff on chocolate disappear by proofing and tempering it again.

this reminded me of one of the very few perks of being a finn, which is the ability to enjoy the greatest chocolate ever invented by man, which is Fazer's blue. (picture below)
Maybe someday in your life badon, you also get to experience it.. hmm i'm already thinking about a coin for chocolate exchange haha

Have you asked dragonzeng168 about this? Maybe he can find out for sure if there is a surface film on the coins that is supposed to act as a preservative to prevent oxidation, toning, white spots, and other forms of corrosion. I have seen this exact thing happen in industrial anti-corrosion coatings, so I'm betting the Shanghai mint just grabbed one of those coatings, and used it on the coins. That's progress, but next they will have to figure out how to keep it invisible, or how to make it disappear again if it becomes visible.

Oh, the experiments I could do on these poor coins...

i doubt dragonzeng168 (new, ending, sold) has any more clue than we do. There are now 2 mysteries regarding these coins. I demand this forum to solve them.
« Last Edit: 2016 Oct 30, 01:30:49 PM by badon »
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Offline Y7ASyxC

i must also add i have yet to see a single picture of the 2016 humble administrator classical garden silver coin without this issue. And as i received mine i saw the same issue with my bare eyes.
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Offline badon

It's ironic that chocolate is in a nice grid pattern. While looking around some more, I found this one:

Could this have been prevented? OUCH!:


That one defies explanation, since I don't think they were using any preservatives back in 2007 when that coin was minted. I'm not sure how it got that white spot pattern that matches the struck surfaces of the coin. The best I can come up with is the white spot residue is actually in the metal, and resides at the crystal grain boundaries. The areas on the planchet that experience the highest deformation expose the most white spot residue at the grain boundaries, so the white spots appear weaker in flat areas, and stronger in high-deformation areas.

That actually makes good sense, but what I don't understand is how the china mint manages to get chlorine or chloride acid residue IN THE METAL. That would be some kind of retarded refining problem. I can research refining methods for silver to see if any them use chlorine somewhere in the process.
 

Offline badon

I found at least 2 silver refining methods that can introduce chlorine within the metal itself, so this seem to be a plausible explanation for when we see white spots that aren't spots - probably better described as exactly what it is, silver chloride, or AgCl. Conservation can still probably reduce the severity of the white AgCl if it's there, but I'm not sure if it can completely remove it, but maybe. More research is needed.
 

Offline Y7ASyxC

my first sample from my new coin studio.

I use heavily optimized and tuned galaxy S2 components. The history, technical details and sophistication of my android optimization must remain unspoken of, because it would simply blow your minds. years and years of hacking and optimizing at the highest level of the android ecosystem has to suffice. However the camera has never been, and will never be a priority, but here goes a test in natural light with the latest nougat release:

In this picture the issue at hand should be visible.
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Offline Y7ASyxC

hmm i'm actually pretty pleased with the result. Given this success, you can await many many wonderful pics from my collection, for which i will start individual threads. For now i'm very happy with this picture, and will now retire for lala-land.
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Offline Y7ASyxC

reverse
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Offline Y7ASyxC

check out how the natural light falls on the left hand side of the garden 'fluff' of the reverse.

it's the reason i'm in numismatics.

i'll optimize my coin studio, this was just the first test shot. Prepare for wonderful pics of wonderful coins
badon, i need a personal subforum where i can start an individual thread for every coin.
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Offline numistacker

Over 2/3rds of the antique silver coins were sent to NGC for grading and most have been given a 70. They are in the census to I guess they should appear soon.

Offline badon

 

Offline Y7ASyxC

The Antique Humble Administrator in Numistacker's "NGC Grading Submissions from TheSilverForum members... deeply jealous but wish them well" video also has the reverse 'upside down'

Starting to look like all Humble Admin's in antique are this way
https://youtu.be/aNEVTcV47I4?t=428
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