Author Topic: Video: 2016 Classical Gardens Humble Administrator's Garden in Antiqued Silver  (Read 1860 times)

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Offline numistacker


Uriah Heap was ever so umble but then so was the Adminstrator.

For those that are interested my lil old video is up.




 
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Offline Y7ASyxC

just received my silver and antique 2016 classical garden's, bombshell coming up.. hold on..
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Offline Y7ASyxC

First of all, the silver i got also has the 'haze' or 'shimmering' like in the picture above.. it's more like some oily residue..

CoA says www.shmintjp.com which i assume is Shanghai mint.

But secondly, and most important, the antique has a die rotation error!
The reverse is upside down? what gives?

Silver CoA# 0795
Antique CoA# 334

I don't have natural light for pictures right now.. but will tomorrow
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Offline numistacker

Mine is also upside down ... maybe that's the right way up?

Offline Y7ASyxC

just looking at numistacker's vid above, he has the same thing. Notice he's holding it upside down (the roof) before flipping it over when it's right side up.
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Offline Y7ASyxC

Mine is also upside down ... maybe that's the right way up?

nope. look at the roof of the garden house on the obverse. Also if you have the silver compare.

Edit by badon: Fixed quote after split.
« Last Edit: 2016 Oct 30, 01:16:02 PM by badon »
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Offline Y7ASyxC

haha you're holding the obverse upside down the whole vid :)
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Offline Y7ASyxC

yes, you can compare to the silver at the end of your video, it's the right way up on both sides. Notice the roof on the obverse. sorry for posting many times, was watching your video as i went along.
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Offline Y7ASyxC

well don't know if it can be called a die rotation error. We'd need to know if all of the antique are the same way. But what it would mean is that the silver and antique are struck with a different press.
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Offline Y7ASyxC

i've been trying to find the classical garden series on http://www.shmintjp.com/#

no luck so far, even with google translate..
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Offline badon

They were made in the Shanghai Mint. Nobody gets paid to do record keeping, and certainly not publication of the records, so no one does it but us. That's pretty typical everywhere, although the China mints are probably worse about it than the Western mints.
 

Offline Y7ASyxC

badon, do you consider the fact that the die rotation on the antique is off 180 degrees compared to the silver as something interesting, or a non-event?
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Offline badon

If we find some that are different, then we will have varieties to collect, which would be very exciting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're the discoverer of the die orientation difference. One reason the orientation could be different is because of the cracked dies. When the cracked dies are replaced, the new dies might be installed with a different orientation. So, the fact you have found something interesting already is a good clue that maybe there are rare varieties mixed in with all the others. If you buy several of them, you might get lucky. dragonzeng168 (new, ending, sold) just told me he's coming over to read this topic, so maybe he will check his inventory after he learns about your discovery. If he finds varieties, I'm guessing you will be first in line to buy them from him, since your discovery will help to sell the coins. Great job on the research!

Even if nothing else is discovered, it's still an interesting fact, because it's not normal for the orientation to be inconsistent in a series. It might qualify as an error, even if all of them are the same, like the 1985 1 oz silver ANA 94th expo Great Wall backward text error.
 
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Offline badon

First of all, the silver i got also has the 'haze' or 'shimmering' like in the picture above.. it's more like some oily residue..

You know what? I think that's exactly what it is. It's probably an oil that prevents toning and corrosion after the coins are minted. Before plastic coin holders started to become easily available in the 1940's and 1950's, collectors used to coat their coins with oil, wax, lacquer, or even disgusting things like like tar and bacon grease. It worked! It worked better than the modern plastics too, but the big downside was you couldn't safely handle the coins or view them easily like you can with the modern plastics.

What if this is the Shanghai mint's earnest attempt at dealing with quality issues on their coins? Hmm. This method would prevent the formation of white spots too! It's giving me some ideas. I wonder if it's possible to coat the coin with something and still get a good grade from NGC or PCGS? Ideally, getting a 70 grade with a coin preserved in oil or a dry lacquer would be a very good way to near-permanently prevent the white spots from ever forming. Interesting.

Edit by badon: Fixed quote link after splitting to new topic.
« Last Edit: 2016 Oct 30, 01:20:19 PM by badon »
 

Offline StackOfPandas

Bravo to the Shanghai mint if it's a preservative. I put oil on my silver stack when I'm done polishing tarnish away.
 

Offline Y7ASyxC

First of all, the silver i got also has the 'haze' or 'shimmering' like in the picture above.. it's more like some oily residue..

You know what? I think that's exactly what it is. It's probably an oil that prevents toning and corrosion after the coins are minted. Before plastic coin holders started to become easily available in the 1940's and 1950's, collectors used to coat their coins with oil, wax, lacquer, or even disgusting things like like tar and bacon grease. It worked! It worked better than the modern plastics too, but the big downside was you couldn't safely handle the coins or view them easily like you can with the modern plastics.

What if this is the Shanghai mint's earnest attempt at dealing with quality issues on their coins? Hmm. This method would prevent the formation of white spots too! It's giving me some ideas. I wonder if it's possible to coat the coin with something and still get a good grade from NGC or PCGS? Ideally, getting a 70 grade with a coin preserved in oil or a dry lacquer would be a very good way to near-permanently prevent the white spots from ever forming. Interesting.

This was why i asked earlier, in some thread, if a coin with 'haze' can get a 70, as i was looking at a picture of a PF70 silver 2016 classical garden, with this substance clearly visible in the squares at the top of the obverse.

Edit by badon: Fixed quote link after splitting to new topic.
« Last Edit: 2016 Oct 30, 01:21:44 PM by badon »
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Offline Y7ASyxC

Bravo to the Shanghai mint if it's a preservative. I put oil on my silver stack when I'm done polishing tarnish away.

i'm still skeptical. If it was a preservative, why would it appear so unevenly distributed?. On the 2016 classical garden silver coins, it's practically visible on all high relief surfaces, and it always appears to concentrate to the nearest edge, or place where the high relief surface breaks. does that make sense?

ie, it's not evenly distributed in the squares, it starts from the edge, and diminishes towards the center.

Edit by badon: Fixed quote link after splitting to new topic.
« Last Edit: 2016 Oct 30, 01:22:14 PM by badon »
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Offline Y7ASyxC

Bravo to the Shanghai mint if it's a preservative. I put oil on my silver stack when I'm done polishing tarnish away.

i did realize it was a joke by the way lol

Edit by badon: Fixed quote link after splitting to new topic.
« Last Edit: 2016 Oct 30, 01:22:39 PM by badon »
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Offline Y7ASyxC

I wonder if it's possible to coat the coin with something and still get a good grade from NGC or PCGS? Ideally, getting a 70 grade with a coin preserved in oil or a dry lacquer would be a very good way to near-permanently prevent the white spots from ever forming. Interesting.

Just to be clear, the first time i spotted this was from a picture of a PF 70 grade classical garden, it's what confused me in the first place. I think it might be the ebay picture from dragonzeng168 (new, ending, sold) of the first graded 2016 classical garden to appear on the markets, which badon mentioned in #183 a few pages back.

Edit by badon: Fixed quote link after splitting to new topic.
« Last Edit: 2016 Oct 30, 01:23:19 PM by badon »
  • never argue with idiots
 

Offline badon

Bravo to the Shanghai mint if it's a preservative. I put oil on my silver stack when I'm done polishing tarnish away.

i'm still skeptical. If it was a preservative, why would it appear so unevenly distributed?. On the 2016 classical garden silver coins, it's practically visible on all high relief surfaces, and it always appears to concentrate to the nearest edge, or place where the high relief surface breaks. does that make sense?

ie, it's not evenly distributed in the squares, it starts from the edge, and diminishes towards the center.

Surface tension causes it to "stick" to things, so it appears to be thinner when there is less stuff to stick to.

Edit by badon: Fixed quote link after splitting to new topic.
« Last Edit: 2016 Oct 30, 01:23:54 PM by badon »
 

Offline badon

First of all, the silver i got also has the 'haze' or 'shimmering' like in the picture above.. it's more like some oily residue..

You know what? I think that's exactly what it is. It's probably an oil that prevents toning and corrosion after the coins are minted. Before plastic coin holders started to become easily available in the 1940's and 1950's, collectors used to coat their coins with oil, wax, lacquer, or even disgusting things like like tar and bacon grease. It worked! It worked better than the modern plastics too, but the big downside was you couldn't safely handle the coins or view them easily like you can with the modern plastics.

What if this is the Shanghai mint's earnest attempt at dealing with quality issues on their coins? Hmm. This method would prevent the formation of white spots too! It's giving me some ideas. I wonder if it's possible to coat the coin with something and still get a good grade from NGC or PCGS? Ideally, getting a 70 grade with a coin preserved in oil or a dry lacquer would be a very good way to near-permanently prevent the white spots from ever forming. Interesting.

This was why i asked earlier, in some thread, if a coin with 'haze' can get a 70, as i was looking at a picture of a PF70 silver 2016 classical garden, with this substance clearly visible in the squares at the top of the obverse.

I wonder if it's possible to coat the coin with something and still get a good grade from NGC or PCGS? Ideally, getting a 70 grade with a coin preserved in oil or a dry lacquer would be a very good way to near-permanently prevent the white spots from ever forming. Interesting.

Just to be clear, the first time i spotted this was from a picture of a PF 70 grade classical garden, it's what confused me in the first place. I think it might be the ebay picture from dragonzeng168 (new, ending, sold) of the first graded 2016 classical garden to appear on the markets, which badon mentioned in #183 a few pages back.

This is one place I found it mentioned:

Re: 2016 classical gardens Zhou Zheng Yuan due for release in October

Maybe that's what you're talking about?

Edit by badon: Fixed quote link after splitting to new topic.
« Last Edit: 2016 Oct 30, 01:26:43 PM by badon »
 

Offline StackOfPandas

Bravo to the Shanghai mint if it's a preservative. I put oil on my silver stack when I'm done polishing tarnish away.

i did realize it was a joke by the way lol

I don't get it.

Edit by badon: Fixed quote link after splitting to new topic.
« Last Edit: 2016 Oct 30, 01:26:08 PM by badon »
 

Offline Y7ASyxC

There are now 2 unsolved mysteries regarding the 2016 humble administrator classical gardens:

Mystery #1: the mysterious residue on the high relief surfaces of the proof silver, which seem to pass 70 grade without issue
Mystery #2: the antique version has the obverse/reverse in 180 degrees (upside down)
  • never argue with idiots
 

Offline Y7ASyxC

First of all, the silver i got also has the 'haze' or 'shimmering' like in the picture above.. it's more like some oily residue..

You know what? I think that's exactly what it is. It's probably an oil that prevents toning and corrosion after the coins are minted. Before plastic coin holders started to become easily available in the 1940's and 1950's, collectors used to coat their coins with oil, wax, lacquer, or even disgusting things like like tar and bacon grease. It worked! It worked better than the modern plastics too, but the big downside was you couldn't safely handle the coins or view them easily like you can with the modern plastics.

What if this is the Shanghai mint's earnest attempt at dealing with quality issues on their coins? Hmm. This method would prevent the formation of white spots too! It's giving me some ideas. I wonder if it's possible to coat the coin with something and still get a good grade from NGC or PCGS? Ideally, getting a 70 grade with a coin preserved in oil or a dry lacquer would be a very good way to near-permanently prevent the white spots from ever forming. Interesting.

This was why i asked earlier, in some thread, if a coin with 'haze' can get a 70, as i was looking at a picture of a PF70 silver 2016 classical garden, with this substance clearly visible in the squares at the top of the obverse.

I wonder if it's possible to coat the coin with something and still get a good grade from NGC or PCGS? Ideally, getting a 70 grade with a coin preserved in oil or a dry lacquer would be a very good way to near-permanently prevent the white spots from ever forming. Interesting.

Just to be clear, the first time i spotted this was from a picture of a PF 70 grade classical garden, it's what confused me in the first place. I think it might be the ebay picture from dragonzeng168 (new, ending, sold) of the first graded 2016 classical garden to appear on the markets, which badon mentioned in #183 a few pages back.

This is one place I found it mentioned:

Re: 2016 classical gardens Zhou Zheng Yuan due for release in October

Maybe that's what you're talking about?
No, i remember you mentioning the first PF70 graded one appearing on the markets in #183, and when looking at the zoom of the ebay picture of that link, i noticed it the first time. The comment above was the second time i wrote about it.

Edit by badon: Fixed quote link after splitting to new topic.
« Last Edit: 2016 Oct 30, 01:28:50 PM by badon »
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Offline Y7ASyxC

Bravo to the Shanghai mint if it's a preservative. I put oil on my silver stack when I'm done polishing tarnish away.

i did realize it was a joke by the way lol

I don't get it.

Well me either, were you joking? :)

btw it's 9 am here, getting close to bedtime. The perks of being unemployed lol

Edit by badon: Fixed quote link after splitting to new topic.
« Last Edit: 2016 Oct 30, 01:29:30 PM by badon »
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