Author Topic: The Nanjing Mint Auspicious Dragon and Phoenix is developing under the radar...  (Read 8843 times)

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Offline trouble


I try to buy those silver dragon and phoenix in china BUT fail which make me no choice to buy with higher price. It not even many sold transactions in ebay. I contact one coin shop in Singapore who is chinesemedals reseller (I deduce) to get extra pair BUT they told me got no extra pair and all sold. They told me it is very fast gone and around 20 pieces were allocated to them. Numistacker did sold some for Andy of chinesemedals (guess around 10 -15 pcs). I came across someone is selling in Malaysia too (guess 20-30). Barsenault webpage and partner sold some (guess 30 - 40). So total add up are 20+ 10 +20 +30 = 80 lower estimation sold or 20+15+30 + 40 = 105.  This means half of total mintage sold. I suspect more have been sold and some of it keep for grading like the classical garden Ge Yuan. The graded coins might not more than 20- 30% of the total mintage 199 available for sell as my deduction because barsenault and partner likely keep some for their collection.     
 

I pre-sold 7 non-fiat coins in total and kept 4 for myself. Minting was in 2 batches and I have 1 x #3 (silver/copper) and 1 x #4 (brass/copper) Post should deliver 3 more this week - 1 missing from a customer and 2 for me with 3 coa's of which 2 are signed by the designer.

I have 3 (#1,#2,#4) at NGC getting graded and will send all the new ones to NGC over the next month or so. I have 2 more #1 non-fiat coins that i got via Lucky a couple of months ago which he sent to USA so I have not seen yet but they will also be graded.

My understanding is #1 is sold out and impossible to find. There may be a couple of #2 (red one) left and I am not 100% sure but I think probably available #3 and #4 ungraded are thin on the ground and some are being held back for graded sale.


Highly possible both of our deduction is correct. Not many #3 and #4 left on the ground and they keep some for graded sale.

#1 I seldom came across no 1 in China and luckypro up his price of the Ngc pf69 for no #1 in eBay. This consistent with his previous style which up price as when stock Low. However I am not sure #2 because it is also hard to come across in China but luckypro do not up his price. As I heard # 2 was not fully minted. This means Nanjing mint still can mint fully within this year if the policy not changing and economical to start the minting balance. I suspect luckypro might want to sell it fast in order to mints the balance and grab this high demand opportunity. He can control the #2 since he has no access to no #3 and #4. Otherwise he always up price when stock level is Low. So no logic for him to sell #2 Low. What if the Person commission the #3 and 4 request Nanjing mint to do the full mintage of #2 ? Luckypro will loss it again so the price might up or ???? A lot puzzle here. I bought few pieces of no 1,2,3 and 4 at entry level price. Seems like good bet.

Hi numistacker 

Can you get more information for us ?


Edit by badon: Fixed quote.
« Last Edit: 2016 Jun 07, 07:41:29 AM by badon »
 

Offline numistacker

I heard - and i dont know how much of this is right or wrong.. but...i heard that when the Nanjing mint did #1 the first batch didnt turn out right but they didnt want to throw them away so they used some creativity to create #2. The red application was applied to the front and the back was antiqued.

Probably they never really intended to mint more than the first batch and I heard it didn't sell well at all.

I have the first one with NGC at the moment and NGC have described it as "Colourized" rather than Antique and I guess they had no clear way to know what it was. It is interesting that #2 seems to be growing on people and I had an order from a friend on the SilverForum to locate a #2 for him to complete his set and I managed to get one from Lucky.


Offline trouble

I heard - and i dont know how much of this is right or wrong.. but...i heard that when the Nanjing mint did #1 the first batch didnt turn out right but they didnt want to throw them away so they used some creativity to create #2. The red application was applied to the front and the back was antiqued.

Probably they never really intended to mint more than the first batch and I heard it didn't sell well at all.

I have the first one with NGC at the moment and NGC have described it as "Colourized" rather than Antique and I guess they had no clear way to know what it was. It is interesting that #2 seems to be growing on people and I had an order from a friend on the SilverForum to locate a #2 for him to complete his set and I managed to get one from Lucky.



The red color one is imitation of the "China royal family color coating technology". I heard the same story BUT it seems nothings much left now. Will luckpro mint the #2? Will the mint does it ? or will the silver dragon and phoenix sponsor does it before him? or will the mint does it as gift since it is so popular. all type of question now.

However, it is wiser to buy it at low price now rather than view as my personal view since it is at 78 per piece only.   
 

Offline numistacker

I am not sure if this has surfaced here yet but I thought that it would be good to let people know.
There is in fact a new #5 in the Dragon and Phoenix series that has surfaced.

The #5 Auspicious dragon and phoenix is based on the #3 non-fiat coin that is Silver/Copper obverse and brass (Koi) reverse but it has been antiqued making it the first Trimet Matte Antiqued Dragon and Phoenix.

As you can see from the COA picture this is a limited mintage of 69 coins and my understanding is that about 30 of these have been kept by the mint as VIP gifts and about 39 are available to purchase though I suspect that all but 2 or 3 have been pre-ordered by collectors of this lovely mini-series.

There is one non-fiat coin available on eBAY via seller Chinesemedals.com and this is the description:

262512342998

 2015 Nanjing Mints -China traditional culture series - Dragon and Phoenix trimetalic non-fiat coin RARE antique finishing 69 Mintage
The first non-fiat coin is auspicious dragon phoenix. 45 mm diameter, breakthrough technology combining three materials into 1 non-fiat coin, High relief sand blasted with mirror proof surface, coin edge at rim and first for China.

Observes the "auspicious dragon and phoenix ". A Chinese scholar has cited, a wise emperor with mercy will lead to peace and one of the 9 dragon will show up to represent the auspicious. The reserve is "koi jump over the dragon gate". The ancient "HAN empire" ethic group of China legend cited the koi will turn into Dragon after jumping over the dragon gate. This represent promotion in ranking if you are employee, successfulness and higher achievement if you are businessman, achieve an excellent results if you are student and so on. Both sides of the non-fiat coin represent Chinese tradition.

Chinese Traditional Culture series Dragon and Phoenix Tri-metalic non-fiat coin excellent technology highlights:


1. A breakthrough advance technology of Nanjing Mint to cast and strike three different metals brass, copper and silver together tightly as showed in video instead of using industry glue which is common in practise.

2. Generally the traditional mirror sandblasting process for 45 mm diameter high relief non-fiat coin is around height of 0.5mm. However, Nanjing mint has made another high relief technology breakthrough  - 3mm. 

Generally, the mirror sandblasting process must strike once rather than numerous times. To make this happen for the Dragon and Phoenix Tri-metalic non-fiat coin using the latest technology of three times casting and striking to merge the three metals by numerous dies' This is different technology with the classical garden since it is tri-metalic instead of one metal only.

http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-73235-nanjing-mints-technology-braekthrough-high-relief-medal.html

By : Nanjing Mint
Mintage : 69
Material : Copper, brass and 30 gram silver (antique matte finishing)
Coa and box.



I have also included a photo of the #2 Dragon and Phoenix non-fiat coin This is the first one to be graded by NGC and they have described it correctly as Enamelled and this one was given PF69 - ANTIQUED.

Edit by badon: Linkify, medal = non-fiat coin.
« Last Edit: 2016 Jul 06, 03:25:43 AM by badon »
 

Offline numistacker

I heard - and i dont know how much of this is right or wrong.. but...i heard that when the Nanjing mint did #1 the first batch didnt turn out right but they didnt want to throw them away so they used some creativity to create #2. The red application was applied to the front and the back was antiqued.

Probably they never really intended to mint more than the first batch and I heard it didn't sell well at all.

I have the first one with NGC at the moment and NGC have described it as "Colourized" rather than Antique and I guess they had no clear way to know what it was. It is interesting that #2 seems to be growing on people and I had an order from a friend on the SilverForum to locate a #2 for him to complete his set and I managed to get one from Lucky.



The red color one is imitation of the "China royal family color coating technology". I heard the same story BUT it seems nothings much left now. Will luckpro mint the #2? Will the mint does it ? or will the silver dragon and phoenix sponsor does it before him? or will the mint does it as gift since it is so popular. all type of question now.

However, it is wiser to buy it at low price now rather than view as my personal view since it is at 78 per piece only.   

I was very happy to get a PF69 Antiqued for this #2 non-fiat coin. That was a very good result as it is not clear if NGC favour these antiqued non-fiat coins and the enamel finish seems very unique so no precedent.


Edit by badon: medal = non-fiat coin.
« Last Edit: 2016 Jul 06, 03:26:46 AM by badon »
 

Offline numistacker

The first few Dragon and Phoenix Antique #5 have hit the market. There may not be many more with a mintage of 69 and 30 reportedly being given away as VIP gifts by the mint.

232005422510

Seller Lavendrsh7 had 2 and sold one in omp at $468
lavendersh7

Link to video by Panda King


Edit by badon: Linkify, fixed video link (put it on a new line).




« Last Edit: 2016 Jul 13, 12:44:48 PM by badon »
 

Offline badon

Any news about these coming to the market in certified grades?
 

Offline numistacker

Any news about these coming to the market in certified grades?

NGC is really slow at the moment. I have had stuff with NCS since 3rd June and it's not done with yet. It will be a month to 6 weeks I think before we see them certified and I will be certifying 2. Might conserve and grade or just grade not sure yet.

Offline badon

Maybe by the time you get them back, I'll be able to afford one of them :)
 

Offline numistacker

The first two Antique Silver Dragon and Phoenix are back from NGC grading with PF69 which is very good for an Antique finish coin.

You may have noticed that these are basically impossible to find.

Mintage is 69 non-fiat coins for this one.
My understanding is 30 were kept by the mint leaving 39 in circulation.

 
The following users thanked this post: badon, StackOfPandas

Offline badon

You have any for sale? I still don't have one for my collection, and I'm doing my best to make this post sound as pathetically whiney and shrill as possible, haha :)
 

Offline StackOfPandas

Great, that's just great with two of them. One for badon and one for me. Squee!
 

Offline numistacker

Great, that's just great with two of them. One for badon and one for me. Squee!

You have any for sale? I still don't have one for my collection, and I'm doing my best to make this post sound as pathetically whiney and shrill as possible, haha :)

I can feel a bidding war coming on )) seriously I have 1 for sale as I want to keep one for my collection.

Offline badon

I'll take it! How much did you say it was? :)
 

Offline numistacker

I'll take it! How much did you say it was? :)

How much do you want it to be? Happy to review sealed bids ))

Offline StackOfPandas

You can have it badon, be my guest. I was just joking because I have more pandas to stack anyway. My one true love is pandas. Nanjing/Nanking pandas are on the radar and I have to get them while the getting is good. Great article by the way about the imitation and flattery. Made me love my pandas even more.
 
The following users thanked this post: badon

Offline badon

Great, that's just great with two of them. One for badon and one for me. Squee!

You have any for sale? I still don't have one for my collection, and I'm doing my best to make this post sound as pathetically whiney and shrill as possible, haha :)

I can feel a bidding war coming on )) seriously I have 1 for sale as I want to keep one for my collection.

PM sent! Is there a discount for NGC putting it in the holder backwards, haha :)
 

Offline badon

You can have it badon, be my guest. I was just joking because I have more pandas to stack anyway. My one true love is pandas. Nanjing/Nanking pandas are on the radar and I have to get them while the getting is good. Great article by the way about the imitation and flattery. Made me love my pandas even more.

Thank you very much, I owe you one :)
 

Offline barsenault

Nice.  Two happy people. You gotta luv it!!
MORE INEXPENSIVE NON-FIAT COINS HERE: http://tinyurl.com/zzgbyfm
 

Offline numistacker

You can have it badon, be my guest. I was just joking because I have more pandas to stack anyway. My one true love is pandas. Nanjing/Nanking pandas are on the radar and I have to get them while the getting is good. Great article by the way about the imitation and flattery. Made me love my pandas even more.

Thank you very much, I owe you one :)
Great, that's just great with two of them. One for badon and one for me. Squee!

You have any for sale? I still don't have one for my collection, and I'm doing my best to make this post sound as pathetically whiney and shrill as possible, haha :)

I can feel a bidding war coming on )) seriously I have 1 for sale as I want to keep one for my collection.

PM sent! Is there a discount for NGC putting it in the holder backwards, haha :)

I think there is a premium for an error slab ))

Offline badon

HAHAHAHAHA, that's a good joke...yeeah, I'm going to keep my mouth shut now :)
 

Offline trouble

I saw the second trimetalic of the series in the eBay. As dragon and Phoenix, barsenualt and partner do not really sell it on eBay.

I read silverstacker.com #2 of the second trimetalic swan and mandarin duck is accepting pre order now.

Will this sold majority before releasing to eBay like dragon and Phoenix #3,4 and 5?
 

Offline badon

The first two Antique Silver Dragon and Phoenix are back from NGC grading with PF69 which is very good for an Antique finish coin.

You may have noticed that these are basically impossible to find.

Mintage is 69 non-fiat coins for this one.
My understanding is 30 were kept by the mint leaving 39 in circulation.

Is the mintage 69 or is it 70? I thought it was 70.

On reddit:

The first Nanjing 2015 trimetallic auspicious culture dragon and phoenix matte antiqued certified at NGC
 

Offline numistacker

I am pretty sure it's 69 and minted and that 30 were being held by the mint and were not available for sale. When I get to London I will check the Coa. The  link that NGC have added to the Cert look up is incorrect. If you notice it actually links to the Dragon and Phoenix number two coin which I have also had graded, the one with the red enamel finish .

Offline barsenault

MORE INEXPENSIVE NON-FIAT COINS HERE: http://tinyurl.com/zzgbyfm