Author Topic: Why aren't there any new Liu Yuan Classical Gardens coins on ebay?  (Read 1354 times)

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Offline AbeLinkin

I've been curious as to why there hasn't seemed to be any new additions to eBay for the new Liu Yuan Classical Gardens series coins. I assumed for the most part dealers were waiting for their coins to be returned to them from being graded at NGC and PCGS, but still, a few weeks later still no new listings for the series on eBay. Maybe I am underestimating how long the grading process takes, but still I am a little surprised someone like thincat or one of our other popular sellers on eBay has yet to put any up for sale. I've purchased a few already, but I wait in anticipation for the graded ones to appear. I wonder if fewer of these will be making there way to the west than in the past?
 

Offline badon

I have noticed that too. You would think people would be offering the OMP version. However, the excitement seems to be high for the upcoming design, which I haven't posted about yet. I wonder if the supply was absorbed in China already? I do know the Chinese side of this market is very hot, and many dealers aren't bothering to give Western buyers a chance to buy them. This fits the circumstances.
 

Offline badon

I've been curious as to why there hasn't seemed to be any new additions to eBay for the new Liu Yuan Classical Gardens series coins. I assumed for the most part dealers were waiting for their coins to be returned to them from being graded at NGC and PCGS, but still, a few weeks later still no new listings for the series on eBay. Maybe I am underestimating how long the grading process takes, but still I am a little surprised someone like thincat or one of our other popular sellers on eBay has yet to put any up for sale. I've purchased a few already, but I wait in anticipation for the graded ones to appear. I wonder if fewer of these will be making there way to the west than in the past?

I have noticed that too. You would think people would be offering the OMP version. However, the excitement seems to be high for the upcoming design, which I haven't posted about yet. I wonder if the supply was absorbed in China already? I do know the Chinese side of this market is very hot, and many dealers aren't bothering to give Western buyers a chance to buy them. This fits the circumstances.

I just had an epiphany. The market is hot right now in China, and normally Western investors are all over this, and at least 2 steps ahead of it because of their advantage in numismatic experience. But not this time. Why? I think it's because the china-mint.info forum killed the Western side of the market. To this day, occasionally someone will PM me with a link to the china-mint.info authorities accusing me of something or making up some story about financial crimes to explain why I was banned there. This made perfect sense at the time it happened ("Who run Bartertown?"), but I politely excused myself without a fight, and let them make up whatever story they wanted to stop the questions. Today, they're very hostile to newcomers, not just me, and they're very quick to falsely accuse people of financial crimes. This is normal in American culture, but it usually has some kind of motive. Until now, I couldn't figure out what the motive is.

Your question got me thinking about who profits from the weak Western side of the market, and then it hit me - it's people who are arbitraging coins back to China. poconopenn, fwang2450, davidt3251, SANDAC - EVERYONE who used to be good friends and then inexplicably turned hostile without any clear reason for the change...Until I realized the one thing they all have in common is they're all making money sending coins back to China, and my blogging tends to equalize prices and information, so they don't have any advantage in buying on the Western side of the market anymore. Even in the USA's culture, it's not normal for everyone to independently and simultaneously develop a coordinated hostility like that. It reminds me of The Visit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Visit_%28play%29

They did this to barsenault too, and his crime was sharing photos of rare, newly minted, underpriced Chinese coins - a very innocent thing to do - but those coins were competing with the coins the china-mint.info forum is invested in. It all makes sense now.

« Last Edit: 2016 Apr 24, 04:35:00 PM by badon »
 

Offline badon

There is a somewhat famous precedent for this. Kitco is notorious for its excessively negative "news" reporting. It took me forever to figure out how they're profiting from it, but it turns out they're making their money on the buy-side. Publishing very negative news when the market is positive always causes somebody somewhere to panic and sell, and Kitco's dominance in the charts and pricing dating probably makes that pretty easy. Supply can be difficult to buy in strong market conditions, but Kitco solved that problem pretty ingeniously.
 

Offline numistacker

I've been curious as to why there hasn't seemed to be any new additions to eBay for the new Liu Yuan Classical Gardens series coins. I assumed for the most part dealers were waiting for their coins to be returned to them from being graded at NGC and PCGS, but still, a few weeks later still no new listings for the series on eBay. Maybe I am underestimating how long the grading process takes, but still I am a little surprised someone like thincat or one of our other popular sellers on eBay has yet to put any up for sale. I've purchased a few already, but I wait in anticipation for the graded ones to appear. I wonder if fewer of these will be making there way to the west than in the past?

I have only been taking an interest in the Classic Gardens series recently. I enjoyed a trip to the Summer Palace in October even though it was cold and rained. It was a 1 hour taxi ride from Beijing with no easy way of getting back...I digress..Anyway, I bought a Brass 2016 from dragonzeng168 as it was the best value but it seems that there is no ready supply of any of the 2016 gardens available right now. I would like to pick up a Silver one too but I cant quite bring myself to spend what dragonzeng168 is asking right now.

Edit by badon: Fixed quote.
« Last Edit: 2016 Apr 25, 07:19:37 PM by badon »
 

Offline badon

I have only been taking an interest in the Classic Gardens series recently. I enjoyed a trip to the Summer Palace in October even though it was cold and rained. It was a 1 hour taxi ride from Beijing with no easy way of getting back...I digress..Anyway, I bought a Brass 2016 from dragonzeng168 as it was the best value but it seems that there is no ready supply of any of the 2016 gardens available right now. I would like to pick up a Silver one too but I cant quite bring myself to spend what dragonzeng168 is asking right now.

Nice photos numistacker! The people behind the Classical Gardens series are impressively good at what they do. Every time a new book is published about a series, prices and popularity go way, way up...and stay up. Pandas beat lunars because of Peter Anthony's panda book published in 2007 or 2008, if I remember correctly. That's some heavy firepower!

So guess what? They're producing a book about the Classical Gardens series that will probably be published around the end of the year. This is not common knowledge yet. The only reason I know is because I was asked to write part of it. dragonzeng168 knows about the book, and so do many of the Chinese collectors of this series. Could it be that's why suddenly we are having difficulty buying the latest releases? It makes sense to me.

I haven't checked dragonzeng168's pricing yet. Maybe you can post an ebay item number for one of them that you're thinking you would like to have, but you feel is too expensive? That might make for some interesting discussion.

Oh, this reminds me, have you done a video about the Classical Gardens yet? If you haven't, you may want to mention to your viewers that a book is coming out about them. That is valuable information that your viewers will appreciate having.
 

Offline pandamonium

The Garden series are NOT official Mint medals?   Is that true?    IF so, then what does that say about other private mint medals from China?......
 

Offline numistacker

Nice photos numistacker! The people behind the Classical Gardens series are impressively good at what they do. Every time a new book is published about a series, prices and popularity go way, way up...and stay up. Pandas beat lunars because of Peter Anthony's panda book published in 2007 or 2008, if I remember correctly. That's some heavy firepower!

So guess what? They're producing a book about the Classical Gardens series that will probably be published around the end of the year. This is not common knowledge yet. The only reason I know is because I was asked to write part of it. dragonzeng168 knows about the book, and so do many of the Chinese collectors of this series. Could it be that's why suddenly we are having difficulty buying the latest releases? It makes sense to me.

I haven't checked dragonzeng168's pricing yet. Maybe you can post an ebay item number for one of them that you're thinking you would like to have, but you feel is too expensive? That might make for some interesting discussion.

Oh, this reminds me, have you done a video about the Classical Gardens yet? If you haven't, you may want to mention to your viewers that a book is coming out about them. That is valuable information that your viewers will appreciate having.

The video will be out tomorrow. Had to earn some money today.. I seem to spend too little time earning and too much time spending.

Offline badon

The Garden series are NOT official Mint medals?   Is that true?    IF so, then what does that say about other private mint medals from China?......

No, that's not true. Who told you that? They're all minted at the Shanghai Mint, if I remember correctly. There might be some privately minted knock-offs trying to capitalize on the success of the official series, but I don't think I've seen any yet.
 

Offline badon

 

Offline numistacker

Re: Why aren't there any new Liu Yuan Classical Gardens coins on ebay?
« Reply #10 on: 2016 Apr 27, 02:04:59 AM »
Nice photos numistacker! The people behind the Classical Gardens series are impressively good at what they do. Every time a new book is published about a series, prices and popularity go way, way up...and stay up. Pandas beat lunars because of Peter Anthony's panda book published in 2007 or 2008, if I remember correctly. That's some heavy firepower!

So guess what? They're producing a book about the Classical Gardens series that will probably be published around the end of the year. This is not common knowledge yet. The only reason I know is because I was asked to write part of it. dragonzeng168 knows about the book, and so do many of the Chinese collectors of this series. Could it be that's why suddenly we are having difficulty buying the latest releases? It makes sense to me.

I haven't checked dragonzeng168's pricing yet. Maybe you can post an ebay item number for one of them that you're thinking you would like to have, but you feel is too expensive? That might make for some interesting discussion.

Oh, this reminds me, have you done a video about the Classical Gardens yet? If you haven't, you may want to mention to your viewers that a book is coming out about them. That is valuable information that your viewers will appreciate having.

Video is just up on You Tube






Offline badon

Re: Why aren't there any new Liu Yuan Classical Gardens coins on ebay?
« Reply #11 on: 2016 Apr 27, 07:03:38 PM »
Great job on the video, numistacker. Your personal experiences visiting China added a unique perspective that we almost never get to see - the point of view of a Western Chinese coin collector, in China. It added a lot to my enjoyment of the video, and I hope you include more details in future videos.
 

Offline badon

Re: Why aren't there any new Liu Yuan Classical Gardens coins on ebay?
« Reply #12 on: 2016 Apr 27, 07:56:46 PM »
dragonzeng168 has had a small surge in sales today, possibly because of the video.