Author Topic: EPCC 2014 Numistacker Baby Panda Brass (200) and Panda Lunar Monkeys (499/99)  (Read 13630 times)

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Offline numistacker

Hoping with fingers crossed for acceptance into the Elite Panda Coin Club

Panda Lunar Monkey Mintage 99
Baby Panda Brass Mintage 200

Offline numistacker

Tried to upload the reverse picture but..

An Error Has Occurred!
Your attachment has failed security checks and cannot be uploaded. Please consult the forum administrator.

There is nothing wrong with my attachment ((

Offline badon

Try uploading here:

http://uploadpie.com/

Then post the URL, and I'll look at the file. I have reported bugs in the forum software, and they're waiting for me to provide sample images that trigger the bug. Then, I can probably fix it and upload it for you here.
 

Offline numistacker

Try uploading here:

http://uploadpie.com/

Then post the URL, and I'll look at the file. I have reported bugs in the forum software, and they're waiting for me to provide sample images that trigger the bug. Then, I can probably fix it and upload it for you here.

http://uploadpie.com/kZeIh


Here is the file link

Offline badon

Reverse photo from here:

http://uploadpie.com/kZeIh

It wouldn't upload when I tried it, so I removed the EXIF data with BatchPurifier. That didn't work either. So, I opened it in FastStone image viewer and resaved it, without changing anything except making it a progressive JPEG. Let's see if this works... It did, so I attached the original file too, compressed into a 7zip file to get past the bug.
 

Offline numistacker

Do I get an EPCC number or is there still a secret handshake?

Offline badon

Sorry, I got side-tracked with all the hats I'm wearing, haha. I approve! Now I'll let everyone else know they can come say yay or nay. It's perhaps an unnecessary formality at this stage, but it makes everyone feel important :) Yes, I know "yay" should be spelled "yea", but it's more fun this way, like igpay atinlay.
 

Offline Ufury

RIGHT ON! Man, you are SO in this club! I say yay! Welcome to the club! I always wanted to say that and really mean really a club!
  • I am U Fury in carnate
 

Offline SquarepegRoundcoin

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Offline AbeLinkin

Beautiful pieces numistacker! Welcome to the club! Approved!
 

Offline badon

I thus declare a quorum, and hereby bestow upon you the full powers and prestige of the Elite Panda Coin Club with your membership number: EPCC99-000005. When I get around to implementing a points system, your points so far would be:

1 / 99 X 10000 = 101.01 points
1 / 99 X 10000 = 101.01 points
1 / 200 X 10000 = 50 points
1 / 499 X 10000 = 20.04 points

Total: 272.06 points

Impressive!
 

Offline Ufury

Hey badon I hope you do the points soon. It sounds like fun! Like a game!
  • I am U Fury in carnate
 

Offline Ufury

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How did you make a picture with letters?
  • I am U Fury in carnate
 

Offline SquarepegRoundcoin

 

Offline Ufury

@Squarepeg I forgot to thank you for the lunicode link. As you can see I used it and put my profile photo in my forum signature --> ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

Formidable says I'm handsome!
  • I am U Fury in carnate
 

Offline numistacker


Offline numistacker

Another one for the EPCC ...

Panda Lunar 2015 Goat Silver Antique Medal from Shenyang Mint
Mintage a cool and rarified 99




Offline badon

Beautiful coin numistacker! I would have bought more of them if I knew they were going to take off so quickly. I knew they would do well eventually, but I was only able to grab 2 of them before I ran out of cash and prices went up. Can you photo all of your coins together so you can get add the new coin to your total points score?

I described my ideas about how this should work here: Re: Rare panda club ideas. The short version is that points are more "exclusive" than mere membership alone, so requiring all coins to be present in the photo points will be earned from makes it harder for people to "poach" (cheat) with pandas they don't actually own. Poachers can still compete with "hunters" (owners), but owners will always have the advantage simply because they have easier access to photo a group of coins together.

Let me know if you like that plan. I think we're about ready to formalize our rules, which will make it more inviting for people to join our club.
 

Offline badon

One other thought, I think a video should be acceptable too, so maybe you can kill 2 birds with 1 stone and show off your collection and your EPCC membership on YouTube, and just post the video link here when you have it ready for earning points.
 

Offline numistacker

Badon since its you who asked...

I added another Panda Lunar Monkey for good measure ))



Offline badon

I thus declare a quorum, and hereby bestow upon you the full powers and prestige of the Elite Panda Coin Club with your membership number: EPCC99-000005. When I get around to implementing a points system, your points so far would be:

1 / 99 X 10000 = 101.01 points
1 / 99 X 10000 = 101.01 points
1 / 200 X 10000 = 50 points
1 / 499 X 10000 = 20.04 points

Total: 272.06 points

Impressive!

1 / 99 X 10000 = 101.01 points 2015 2 oz silver lunar goat panda matte antiqued
1 / 99 X 10000 = 101.01 points 2016 2 oz silver lunar monkey panda matte antiqued
1 / 99 X 10000 = 101.01 points 2016 2 oz silver lunar monkey panda matte antiqued
1 / 200 X 10000 = 50 points 2014 brass baby panda NGC 69
1 / 200 X 10000 = 50 points 2014 30 g silver baby panda NGC 68
1 / 499 X 10000 = 20.04 points 2016 2 oz silver lunar monkey panda NGC 69
1 / 499 X 10000 = 20.04 points 2016 2 oz silver lunar monkey panda NGC 70

Actual calculation: (1/99*10000)*3 + (1/200*10000)*2 + (1/499*10000)*2

Total: 443.11 points

Yikes! You only need 112.45 more points to beat my 555.56 points. I just realized the points are linear, which means double the rarity gives you double the points. But, in the real world, double the rarity tends to cost a lot more than double the price. Should your 99 mintage coins be worth a lot more points than double the points from your 200 mintage coins? This might take some research. What is the typical exponential price gain for increasingly rare coins? I'm going to see if I can come up with a better formula that gives you more points for rarer coins.
 

Offline badon

555.56 badon
272.06 numistacker
134.45 Jens
50.00 AbeLinkin
50.00 SquarepegRoundcoin
33.44 Ufury

It's interesting that each score is approximately double the next highest score. I was going to make a photo of a group of my coins to get more points, but I can see that's not necessary until someone catches up to me! So, if you want to see my coins, you're going to have to put some points pressure on me :)

Here is the new ranking:

555.56 badon
443.11 numistacker
134.45 Jens
50.00 AbeLinkin
50.00 SquarepegRoundcoin
33.44 Ufury

Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe doing an exponential points system wouldn't be as good, because with linear points, it's easy to see at a glance how much more rarity (or coins) you need to beat someone. Want to beat someone with double the points you have? Then you need either double the rarity or double the coins. That's pretty easy and straightforward to understand without a calculator or whatever.
 

Offline badon

So far, the rarity ranking and collection points ranking are exactly the same: EPCC: Coin rarity ranking (quality) and collection points ranking (quantity). That implies our current simple way of counting points for coins is working. Next, I would want to know how much it costs to earn a particular rarity rank and points rank. For example, my question is, did numistacker spend more money for his points with 7 coins (quantity), versus my points with only 1 coin (quality)? I'm guessing that as the market matures, more coins (quantity) will be the cheapest way to gain points. The nice thing is we are evolving a system that gives people diverse ways to both gain membership in the club, and compete for status within the club. This is a lot of fun!
 

Offline numistacker

It occurs to me that the point system is skewed in favour of non-fiat coins. it would be significantly harder to earn points with fiat coins as opposed to non-fiat coins since the natural mintages are so much higher. Also, what should one go on with fiat coins? The mintage, the survivors, the mint sales?

Edit by badon: medal = non-fiat coin.
« Last Edit: 2016 May 17, 02:06:58 AM by badon »
 

Offline badon

The points system isn't skewed in favor of non-fiat coins. Fiat coins are naturally less valuable than non-fiat coins. That is the nature of fiat in general. The points system doesn't care about fiat or non-fiat, so only the mintage matters. It's a rare panda club, and the rarer it is, the better it is. We live in a fiat era right now, which means the majority of people's perception of value is nonsensically skewed against non-fiat. That makes as much sense as dining on razor blades, but whether it makes sense or not, people will still do it gleefully. Eventually those people will suffer the consequences.

In the near future we might be amused to see non-fiat equated with rarity and high valuations. Really, that's the only phenomenon you're looking at right now. Yes, the Elite Panda Coin Club is dominated by non-fiat coins, but that's only because they are superior, and most of the fiat coins just aren't good enough to be considered "Elite", with a capital "E". Nearly all of the rarest pandas ever minted are non-fiat, including the 1982 1 oz platinum panda that has a mintage of 5.

I still collect rare fiat pandas, but they haven't been even close to as good of an investment as the non-fiat pandas. That's simply because most people aren't smart enough to put a fair valuation on non-fiat pandas at the beginning, before we end up owning all of them. That leaves nothing for the ignorant doofus to collect unless he's willing to pay dearly for it...then prices go up, and we smile, while the ignorant doofus learns slowly that fiat numbers on coins literally have no meaning, and they're not superior in any way to coins that do not have fiat numbers on them. For us, that's obvious, and no amount of handwaving can convince us otherwise.

Yes, numistacker, this has been my diabolical plan from the very beginning - start an elite panda club and just wait for people to realize nearly all of the fiat pandas are not rare enough to be admitted! It's politics, it's creative marketing, it's subtle advocacy, and most of all, it is completely true. Rarity matters, and the non-fiat pandas are where the real value is. You can spend $3000 to buy a fiat panda with a mintage of thousands, or you can spend $3000 to buy non-fiat pandas with a mintage of under 100. All of us here are doing that exact thing, and all of us have noticed how quickly prices go up for these rare pandas.

Eventually, envy will do its work, and the rest of the world will understand why we have become "Elitist" with a capital "E" in our Elite Panda Coin Club - we are smarter, we are wealthier, and our coins are better!