Author Topic: Rare panda club ideas  (Read 5104 times)

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Offline AbeLinkin

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #25 on: 2016 Apr 07, 09:43:35 PM »
I'll do that.

Here's a snapshot of the error message:
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #26 on: 2016 Apr 07, 09:47:11 PM »
Maybe there is a problem with one of the pictures I am attaching.
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #27 on: 2016 Apr 07, 09:51:22 PM »
One of the images was cropped. Maybe that's the problem.
 

Offline badon

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #28 on: 2016 Apr 07, 10:09:02 PM »
This is a "feature" that nobody likes: Your attachment has failed security checks and cannot be uploaded. I'm already trying to resolve it with the SMF forum people. The problem is that some image software adds extra data to the image file that triggers security checks. The easiest way to get around it to use a different version of your image. So, your full-quality uncropped image might work. If it doesn't, try using BatchPurifier:

http://www.digitalconfidence.com/batchpurifier.html

... to remove metadata from the image, and then upload that version instead, with no loss of quality. You can also choose an alternative to those, but BatchPurifier is my favorite:

http://alternativeto.net/software/batchpurifier-lite/

If the above doesn't work, try opening it in different image software, and resave it using between 70% and 90% JPEG compression, and that will eventually work if you keep changing the image software you use. Doing this will reduce the image quality, though...unless it's lossless PNG format, but then the file will be huge and might not upload.

If all else fails, just upload it to your favorite image host, like this site:

http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/upload/

Then, give me the URL and I'll take care of it from there.
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #29 on: 2016 Apr 07, 10:53:30 PM »
Cleaned and resized to 85% worked. Not sure why this has started all of a sudden. I did just do a major update on my computer. It's possible something changed with images in the update.
 

Offline badon

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #30 on: 2016 Apr 11, 02:25:23 AM »
I just talked to dragonzeng168 about the possibility of him making notes and photos for people who want to "bag" some of the rarest pandas in his inventory. All he would have to do is make the notes and the photos, and he can put his email or whatever in the photos too, so when they get posted, it's free advertising for him. He has one of the 2013 brass 1st panda expo coins in his inventory, so it might be worthwhile to ask him about making the photos. This club has the potential to put momentum behind the rare coins, which is a good thing for the market.
 

Offline Formidable

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #31 on: 2016 Apr 13, 01:20:55 AM »
Here are the calculations using 10'000 instead of 1'000, to get rid of all the excessive decimals, with this formula:

1 / mintage X 10000 = POINTS

So, for my 2013 brass panda 1st panda expo, the formula would look like this:

1 / 18 X 10000 = 555.56 points

For a 2014 15 g silver baby panda, the formula looks like this:

1 / 2014 X 10000 = 4.97 points

This formula means a coin with a mintage of 10'000 has the baseline value of exactly 1.0:

1 / 10000 X 10000 = 1.0 points

A 1982 1 oz platinum panda with a mintage of 5 would have this formula:

1 / 5 X 10000 = 2000.0 points

Since the 1982 1 oz platinum panda is is the rarest panda coin I can think of at the moment, 2000 is highest number of points possible for a single coin. That means I would need to buy 4 of the 2013 brass panda expos to beat someone with a single 1982 platinum panda. This implies prices ought to be higher for the 2013 brass panda, if rarity were the only factor that mattered. This new formula puts the minimum number of points at just barely under 5.0 for the 2014 15 g silver baby panda. That's nice, because now decimals aren't really needed for scoring the coin that most people will probably be able to own. Likewise, decimals probably aren't necessary for meaningful comparisons with rarer coins.

How do you plan to assign points? Do members make the same EPCC posts, but with different coins?
 

Offline badon

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #32 on: 2016 Apr 13, 02:20:47 AM »
That's a good question. I'm doing some experiments right now, but I'm open to any ideas you or anyone else wants to share.
 

Offline badon

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #33 on: 2016 Apr 22, 01:29:08 PM »
I have been working on a way to automatically keep track of everything, including total scores. I have already reconfigured the forum to support an Elite Panda Coin Club profile field that can only be edited by administrators. So far I have been experimenting on myself and @AbeLinkin, and it works well enough that I think it's ready to be automated. Then, I'll only need to add the membership number to a person's profile, and the rest will be done automatically. That's the plan, anyway. I have had that much of it done for 2 or 3 days now, but I didn't have time to make a post about until I did a 3 day non-stop "get everything important done" sprint.
 

Offline badon

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #34 on: 2016 Apr 28, 03:38:15 AM »
I think I have figured out the best way to differentiate owners from non-owners. We can call the owners "hunters", and the non-owners "poachers". Nobody needs to say whether they're a hunter or a poacher, so everyone keeps their privacy and deniability (being able to claim you don't own the coins when you really do). Both hunters and poachers are completely equal with each other for getting membership, and ranking with the lowest mintage number. For example, I'm an EPCC18 because my membership was earned with a coin that had a mintage of 18, and anyone who can get a photo of a coin like that will also be an EPCC18 like me, so we would rank exactly the same. It doesn't matter if the coins are actually owned or not. Don't ask, don't tell...

The way we can differentiate hunters from poachers is when we do points scoring. Everyone can have the points from the coin(s) that earned them membership and/or their lowest mintage number, so poachers can still participate. But, if we only add together points when all of the coins are together in the same obverse and reverse photos with the usual photo note, then hunters (owners) will have a huge advantage over poachers (non-owners), because the hunters can conveniently group together the coins they own for making photo-notes. Poachers could still do the same thing, but the difficulty is increased enough to give them an appropriate disadvantage compared to the hunters who actually own the coins. Either way, privacy and deniability is still preserved!

We don't want to discourage poachers from continuing to hunt for the rarest pandas, so we can still allow poachers to accumulate more and more "poacher points" from each of their separately posted photo notes. Poacher points could be added together, but they would not be comparable to "hunter points". Hunter points can only be earned in a single pair of obverse/reverse photo-notes (with supplementary close-ups if there are too many to get a clear image of each in a single photo). The end result is EVERY member can earn BOTH hunter points and poacher points. Your hunter points are from your biggest grouping of coins, with nothing added, while your poacher points are added up from all of your photo notes combined, even if the coins aren't grouped together.

The end result is poacher points are only compared and ranked next to other poacher points, and hunter points are only compared and ranked next to other hunter points. Since everyone can have both poacher and hunter points, it allows everyone to participate at all times, no matter whether you're a super rich veteran, or just a beginner. Beginners and veterans will still be able to compete against each other, so I'm hoping this method of counting points will encourage everyone to participate and have fun searching for the next goal to achieve.

It might actually enhance privacy and deniability too, because hunters can easily persuade other hunters to make photo-notes for each other, for some easy poacher points. It doesn't matter who makes the photo-notes as long as they say "Elite Panda Coin Club" with the person's forum username in the note, like usual. Easy! I think this will encourage people to talk about the coins, and keep people friendly and social with the other members of the club.

To preserve privacy and deniability, it might be wise to encourage people to make "poacher deals" privately, which makes perfect sense, because, uh, it's poaching!
« Last Edit: 2016 Apr 28, 03:59:52 AM by badon »
 

Offline Formidable

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #35 on: 2016 Apr 28, 04:02:45 AM »
Does that mean I can be an EPCC18 like you if you make a note for me? Sign me up!
 

Offline badon

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #36 on: 2016 Apr 28, 04:10:17 AM »
In theory, yes. However, I like being the only EPCC18, so no, I'm not going to make a note for you. Call me "elitist" if you want, but this IS the ELITE Panda Coin Club :P Maybe if you have one of the 5 specimens of the 1982 1 oz platinum panda, we could work out a deal. I would love to be an EPCC5 :) Now that I'm thinking about it, being a little "elitist" might mean poaching is mostly done among people with the same EPCC mintage number rank. The life of a "poacher" is never easy, haha!
 

Offline Jens

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #37 on: 2016 Apr 28, 05:16:07 AM »
I like your ideas so far, the formula with calculations using 10'000 sounds good and the possibility of deniability is also good for security reasons as you stated earlier (although i personally store my valuable stuff off-site).
So as far as i'm concerned hunters and poachers with the new formula is all i need.
I'm not sure if we should bring grade rarity into the formula, it might make the whole thing too complicated. Also, there are coins which usually get good grades and there are some where only very few get good grades.
So if we where to just bring MS 68/69/70 into the formula it wouldn't be completely correct. But if we want to differentiate further i think the whole process would become very tiresome and take up too much of your time.
 
"You have to choose (as a voter) between trusting to the natural stability of gold and the natural stability of the honesty and intelligence of the members of the Government.
And, with due respect for these gentlemen, I advise you, as long as the Capitalist system lasts, to vote for gold."   - George Bernard Shaw -
 

Offline Ufury

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #38 on: 2016 Apr 28, 05:20:21 AM »
Badon was like "I say, poaching is kewl my good sir"
        ┌─┐
        ┴─┴
        ಠ_ರೃ

And Formidable was like "lemme poach ur coinz"

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

And Badon was like "no, cuz, ELITE"

┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐

And Formidable was like "brah, how can u do dis 2 ur brah?"

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

And Badon was like "cuz b'cuz"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And Formidable was like very sad

(͡๏̯͡๏)

And then Formibadle was like very mad and flipping the table

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

And Badon was like "ur cleaning that"

ಠ_ಠ

And Formidable was like more mad and flipping all the tables

┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻

And Badon was worrying like "wtf"

⊙﹏⊙

And then Badon was like "chillax and lets b frens"

⊂(◉‿◉)つ

And Formidable was like "ur rite, i clean da tables"

┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

And Badon was like "wise brah"

       {o,o}
        |)__)
        -"-"-
  • I am U Fury in carnate
 

Offline badon

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #39 on: 2016 Apr 28, 08:51:01 PM »
HAHA, I laughed when I read that Ufury. You always have something funny up your sleeve, and by that I mean hotdogs :)
 

Offline badon

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #40 on: 2016 Apr 28, 08:52:07 PM »
I like your ideas so far, the formula with calculations using 10'000 sounds good and the possibility of deniability is also good for security reasons as you stated earlier (although i personally store my valuable stuff off-site).
So as far as i'm concerned hunters and poachers with the new formula is all i need.
I'm not sure if we should bring grade rarity into the formula, it might make the whole thing too complicated. Also, there are coins which usually get good grades and there are some where only very few get good grades.
So if we where to just bring MS 68/69/70 into the formula it wouldn't be completely correct. But if we want to differentiate further i think the whole process would become very tiresome and take up too much of your time.

OK, thanks for your input. I agree with you, it's probably best to not include grade rarity. Maybe in the future.
 

Offline badon

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #41 on: 2016 May 08, 09:20:14 AM »
I just calculated points and put a points ranking here: Re: EPCC Jens 2015 2 oz silver Lunar Panda Goat (299) + matte antique (99). Something interesting that I did not expect is an unusual motivation for people to gain points. Since I have a nice lead at the #1 points score, I can be lazy.

If people want to see photos of my magnificent collection, the way to force me to post them is to try to beat my points! Since it's not required to own the coins, in theory it's possible for "the little people" to gang up on me at a coin show or something, and make impressive photos for everyone who puts their coins in together for a group photo. Everyone can slip their own note in for a photo, so everyone who contributes gets the points. This might make some interesting social dynamics...Just don't forget which ones are NOT yours when you take your coins back, or the social dynamics could turn sour!
 

Offline badon

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #42 on: 2016 May 09, 08:25:25 PM »
More details about earning points:

I think I have figured out the best way to differentiate owners from non-owners. We can call the owners "hunters", and the non-owners "poachers". Nobody needs to say whether they're a hunter or a poacher, so everyone keeps their privacy and deniability (being able to claim you don't own the coins when you really do). Both hunters and poachers are completely equal with each other for getting membership, and ranking with the lowest mintage number. For example, I'm an EPCC18 because my membership was earned with a coin that had a mintage of 18, and anyone who can get a photo of a coin like that will also be an EPCC18 like me, so we would rank exactly the same. It doesn't matter if the coins are actually owned or not. Don't ask, don't tell...

The way we can differentiate hunters from poachers is when we do points scoring. Everyone can have the points from the coin(s) that earned them membership and/or their lowest mintage number, so poachers can still participate. But, if we only add together points when all of the coins are together in the same obverse and reverse photos with the usual photo note, then hunters (owners) will have a huge advantage over poachers (non-owners), because the hunters can conveniently group together the coins they own for making photo-notes. Poachers could still do the same thing, but the difficulty is increased enough to give them an appropriate disadvantage compared to the hunters who actually own the coins. Either way, privacy and deniability is still preserved!

We don't want to discourage poachers from continuing to hunt for the rarest pandas, so we can still allow poachers to accumulate more and more "poacher points" from each of their separately posted photo notes. Poacher points could be added together, but they would not be comparable to "hunter points". Hunter points can only be earned in a single pair of obverse/reverse photo-notes (with supplementary close-ups if there are too many to get a clear image of each in a single photo). The end result is EVERY member can earn BOTH hunter points and poacher points. Your hunter points are from your biggest grouping of coins, with nothing added, while your poacher points are added up from all of your photo notes combined, even if the coins aren't grouped together.

The end result is poacher points are only compared and ranked next to other poacher points, and hunter points are only compared and ranked next to other hunter points. Since everyone can have both poacher and hunter points, it allows everyone to participate at all times, no matter whether you're a super rich veteran, or just a beginner. Beginners and veterans will still be able to compete against each other, so I'm hoping this method of counting points will encourage everyone to participate and have fun searching for the next goal to achieve.

It might actually enhance privacy and deniability too, because hunters can easily persuade other hunters to make photo-notes for each other, for some easy poacher points. It doesn't matter who makes the photo-notes as long as they say "Elite Panda Coin Club" with the person's forum username in the note, like usual. Easy! I think this will encourage people to talk about the coins, and keep people friendly and social with the other members of the club.

To preserve privacy and deniability, it might be wise to encourage people to make "poacher deals" privately, which makes perfect sense, because, uh, it's poaching!

I posted my ideas on the subject here: Re: Rare panda club ideas. The ultra-short version is, to increase your points score you need to photo all of the coins you want points for, together in the same photo. So, if Jens wanted to add a 3rd coin to his points score, he would need to photo the 2 he already has TOGETHER with the new 3rd coin. That makes it more difficult for people who do not own the coins to claim points for them, although it is still allowed to gain points that way.

Note that it is not strictly required for subsequent "points photos" to include all the coins from previous photos. If you make a photo with an entirely new batch of coins, you will get points only from that new batch of coins, and those points will NOT be added to points already earned (your new points will replace your old points). If your new photo batch is worth fewer points than you have already earned, then you have wasted your time making photos of them, because your points will not change. So, make sure your new photo either includes all coins from previous photos, OR it's worth more points than you already have. Also, your "rarity score" (EPCC99 in your case) will not change unless you post something rarer.
 

Offline badon

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #43 on: 2016 May 17, 12:51:10 AM »
I created a topic to keep track of rankings:

So far, the rarity ranking and collection points ranking are exactly the same: EPCC: Coin rarity ranking (quality) and collection points ranking (quantity). That implies our current simple way of counting points for coins is working. Next, I would want to know how much it costs to earn a particular rarity rank and points rank. For example, my question is, did numistacker spend more money for his points with 7 coins (quantity), versus my points with only 1 coin (quality)? I'm guessing that as the market matures, more coins (quantity) will be the cheapest way to gain points. The nice thing is we are evolving a system that gives people diverse ways to both gain membership in the club, and compete for status within the club. This is a lot of fun!

Right now, I'm working on writing up a convenient list of rules or guidelines for the club, so we won't need to refer back to this old topic from when the club was still in the "ideas" phase.
 

Offline Formidable

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #44 on: 2016 Oct 12, 10:08:43 PM »
badon, you need to start promoting the EPCC so I will have something entertaining to watch. When was the last time you inducted a new member?
 
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Offline badon

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #45 on: 2016 Oct 22, 02:11:37 AM »
You are right! Thanks for reminding me. I'll get to it!
 

Offline Formidable

Re: Rare panda club ideas
« Reply #46 on: 2016 Oct 27, 02:40:50 PM »
Any time you're ready...
 
The following users thanked this post: Ufury