Author Topic: 2016 Classical Gardens Ge Yuan exact same design copied on other artworks  (Read 5087 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline AbeLinkin

I think the Plate Lady needs to be brought in on this. She might be able to shed some light on the artist or at the very least put us in touch with someone who would know more about him and the company that produced the plates. Of course after she hears about what's going on she might also be the catalyst to this thing blowing up in the plate collecting community.
 

Offline AbeLinkin

So the day has finally come. Here, together in one place for the vary first time, are both the Garden of Harmonious Pleasures plate (designed by Master Artisan Zhang Song Mao sometime around 1989) and the newly realized "mistaken identity" coin, the 2015 Ge Yuan Garden 2 oz. silver coin from the Classic Gardens Series. A pairing probably never intended to have been brought together, but what a beautiful pair they make:
 

Offline AbeLinkin

An insert in English is included along with the plate that tells a little of artist Zhang Song Mao's life and his achievements at the time of printing (1989). It's possible the information it provides might lead to finding out more about the artist and where he might be now and if he is still alive or not. The insert reads:

Master Artisan Zhang Song Mao

   Zhang Song Mao was born in 1934 and has worked in the field of ceramic art design and painting for more than 40 years. With the encouragements of his family, he started to learn the ancient techniques of ceramic over-glaze painting at the age of 12.

   After many years of study, he became particularly proficient at landscape and figure studies in the traditional Chinese style. In 1951, he won the first of many awards, a first prize in Jingdezhen Ceramics Arts Campaign. In 1956, he designed tea sets for the Chinese embassies, and in 1959, he won another first prize for his vase design. In recent years, Zhang Song Mao crafted a two-metre floral plate for the National Arts and Crafts Show, and created a wall painting for the Jiang Xi Hall in the People's Meeting Hall in Beijing.

   His name is published in the Dictionary of Chinese Famous Artists and, at present, he is Director of the Jingdezhen City Arts and Crafts Association and a ceramic art director at the China Light Industrial Arts and Crafts Association.
 

Offline badon

Excellent photos! If a picture is worth a thousand words, then what is a picture of a thousand words worth? :) These are the first clear photos I have seen of this plate. On the back of it, it says "© 1989 Imperial Jingdezhen Porcelain" - I'm guessing that is the artist's company? Do you have scans of all the paperwork you can upload, and photos of each side of the box, etc, for a comprehensive photographic record of these fascinating parts of China's art history?

I shared a link to your post with China's Classical Gardens QQ group, so I know they are aware of your research on these plates. The close-up photos of the coin on top of the plate are good enough to show the "dots" of a mechanical printing method. I looked for this evidence because I noticed each letter was different in the phrase "Artistic object. Precious metal pigments may be toxic. Do not use for eating.". I thought it might be hand-written, but it's not, it's just a print of the original hand-written work. I have to wonder, is that what the artist's handwriting looks like in English, or did someone else write that phrase?
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Here are some photos of the outer box. I've only included images where writing is present. The rest of the sides of the box are blank:
 

Offline AbeLinkin

There are three inserts included along with the plate. 2 written in Chinese and one in English. The one in English covers a description of all the plates offered in the series, plus a small bio of Master Artisan Zhang Song Mao. This first of the two inserts written in Chinese, I assume is the Chinese version of the English inset. Here are some up-close photos of the first Chinese insert:
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Here is the English insert. I am pretty sure that what is written here is the English version of what is written in the Chinese insert from the previous post:
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Here is the second Chinese insert. I am guessing that this is the plates COA. Notice the characters written in red. These have been done by hand and the impressions in the paper and flow of ink matches that of a ballpoint pen:
 

Offline AbeLinkin

 

Offline badon

I think now we know who bought all the other plates on ebay. The Classical Gardens QQ group must be following our discussions here because right now they're posting photos of the plates next to the coins just like you did, AbeLinkin. Cool! 8)
 

Offline badon

I'm guessing the handwritten red ink is from some quality assurance technician certifying that the plate passed inspection. The black ink might be the signature of the artist. I will ask the QQ group if they can translate the handwritten text.
 

Offline AbeLinkin

I think now we know who bought all the other plates on ebay. The Classical Gardens QQ group must be following our discussions here because right now they're posting photos of the plates next to the coins just like you did, AbeLinkin. Cool! 8)

This is cool! I think this plate could end up being a cornerstone to a serious Ge Yuan collection. It will be interesting to see if the plate collectors out there catch on to this and they start asking ridiculous prices for them. What will be really interesting to see is the first person who sells both the coin and the plate together in one listing on eBay. I will be curious to see what kind of price someone might put on that.

I haven't done a hunt for the plate in a while. I need to check and see if any new ones have become available.
 

Offline badon

Here's what has been said so far, still waiting for translations of the handwritten text, but I'll post another photo from the QQ group in the meantime:

badon
@明月清泉 @一路上有你~龚 https://forum.coincompendium.com/index.php?topic=4562.msg20385#msg20385
Can someone translate the handwritten Chinese text to English? https://forum.coincompendium.com/index.php?topic=4562.msg20380#msg20380

麟龍-陈知龙(8533404)
badon的请求比尔和叶帅能搞定,这是很难得的资料

麟龍-陈知龙(8533404)
中国工艺品进出口公司早期还是很有眼光的,我还有套1979年的出土文物银章
 

Offline AbeLinkin

If someone is looking for the plate this listing might be your current best bet at purchasing one with the box, coa, and literature that accompanies it at an affordable price. Note, the buyer accepts offers: 272159398523. The seller has 3 available. I'm tempted to send an offer for all three myself.

Here's another with box and literature on auction that could go cheap depending on shipping charges for your country 222048024679

Edit by badon: Linkify.
« Last Edit: 2016 Mar 11, 11:58:16 PM by badon »
 

Offline badon

Collectors in the Classical Gardens QQ group are talking about their interest in possibly collecting the whole series of Zhang Songmao's plates. Not everyone is impressed with them, though, because they're machine-made copies and not hand-made paintings. This hints at the possibility that some of the more sophisticated connoisseurs of the Classical Gardens series might be interested in tracking down the original paintings, and purchasing them.

林海(422483960)
这个瓷盘是中国陶
瓷工艺大师张松茂的作品,此系列一套共有8个盘子。

滇 边城游子((3040372903)
收齐它

小李飞刀团长—(1602999401)
这些盘子都是盗版,毫无价值可言
甚至都不是绘的,全是贴花
 

Offline badon

Zhang Songmao's art continues to inspire a younger generation of artists. This hand-drawn pen art was posted in the Classical Gardens QQ group in China. One of the participants there says he spent a whole day drawing it. Nice!

麟龍-陈知龙(8533404)
折腾了一整天 :D
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Well, if you can't find the plate, draw your own! The fun continues. Well done to whoever the artist may be.

I would imagine finding the originals to these plates will be pretty difficult. I would love to see an original of Songmao's artwork of any kind turn up somewhere. It would be great if someone could track down an aficionado of his works or even better a gallery that might have access to sellers of his works. I spent a good amount of time searching the internet for information on Songmao, as well as keywords found in the English insert from the plate and found little information in English about him.
 

Offline badon

 

Offline trouble

So the day has finally come. Here, together in one place for the vary first time, are both the Garden of Harmonious Pleasures plate (designed by Master Artisan Zhang Song Mao sometime around 1989) and the newly realized "mistaken identity" coin, the 2015 Ge Yuan Garden 2 oz. silver coin from the Classic Gardens Series. A pairing probably never intended to have been brought together, but what a beautiful pair they make:

hehe they change the bird to duck in the coin so it is not right to say fully copy ;)
 

Offline AbeLinkin

hehe they change the bird to duck in the coin so it is not right to say fully copy ;)

Good eye Trouble. I hadn't noticed that. The Ge Yuan is a true original again! :)
 

Offline badon

Check it out AbeLinkin, now sellers on ebay are offering "sets" of coins with collector plates in fancy framed display cases: 291729518072. I must say, I'm impressed at how far this discussion has reached even though only a very small number of people are actually participating here. The plates have gotten a lot of attention in China since we started discussing them here.
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Check it out AbeLinkin, now sellers on ebay are offering "sets" of coins with collector plates in fancy framed display cases: 291729518072. I must say, I'm impressed at how far this discussion has reached even though only a very small number of people are actually participating here. The plates have gotten a lot of attention in China since we started discussing them here.

Wow! This is crazy! I had imagined some sort of scenario playing out in the distant future similar to this, but to see it form so quickly is amazing. I wonder if the blending and appreciation of these two ares of collecting has been seen as much more attractive to the Chinese market than expected? Porcelain is deeply rooted in the Chinese culture and history and the opportunity to blend porcelain art with the beauty of modern Chinese coins may be too attractive an opportunity to resist. This could be some sort of new collector "fusion" taking place here. This could really turn into something.
 

Offline badon

Yes, it really could turn into something! You just described a few of the basic reasons why I think the Chinese coin market might be the first one to achieve art pricing. Chinese people's appreciation of art seems to be deeply rooted in their culture, and it's quite normal for ordinary people to own art, unlike much of the West where very few people ever buy original artworks.

I see this topic about the porcelain plates, and other topics like this one, 2015 2 oz silver lunar goat panda rare COA with artists names, as part of a big-picture trend toward valuing coins not only because of rarity, but also because of the artist who designed it. When we think of numismatic pricing, we think of it as being superior to bullion pricing, where different fundamentals prevail in setting the prices. People who don't understand numismatic pricing can be completely baffled when they see coins selling for a lot more than bullion value. Art pricing could possibly become superior to numismatic pricing, and already even now we can see many coins that are not very rare, but they have much higher prices than similar coins that are a lot rarer. Art pricing will probably baffle coin collectors the same way numismatic pricing baffles bullion silver and gold stackers.

Of course, none of this is conclusive yet, and all the hints and signs we see now may never coalesce into true art pricing where the name of the artist sets the price more than the rarity does. Even in that case, if art pricing never happens, artistic factors do often play a role, even if it's not a dominant role. For example, the 2015 lunar panda COA with the artists names on it is worth more than other COA's, but it's not worth more than the coin itself...not yet. What I would like to see is some artists being elevated to revered status after they die, with art collectors and coin collectors chasing their artworks. The #1 reason this is not happening right now is because not enough time has passed, and most or all of the artists from the earliest days are barely old enough to retire.

Like many things in China right now, when it happens, it will probably happen fast.
 

Offline badon

I found some more photos from the classical gardens QQ group posted recently to show off the connection between the Ge Yuan coin design and the original plate painting. The plate continues to appear to be an integral part of a complete collection, and demonstrated by someone's collection arranged as a circle of coins around the plate.