Author Topic: 2016 Classical Gardens Ge Yuan exact same design copied on other artworks  (Read 5076 times)

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Offline badon

Something interesting from the QQ group. It's the same design as on the 2016 Classical Gardens Ge Yuan. It's a painted ceramic dish.
 

Offline badon

I found more info from the QQ group about this painted plates with the same design as the Ge Yuan coin. With these photos, this was said:

"如果这是一张照片,无大碍,大不了,原地取景再照一张,就是自己的了。这应该是张松茂先生的工艺磁盘原创画作。就涉及到一些问题了。"

As best I can tell, it is saying Zhang Songmao is the artist that designed the plates, but I'm unclear about whether he copied the Classical Gardens Ge Yuan coin design, or the coin copied the plates. I used this tool to translate:

http://imtranslator.net/compare/chinese-simplified/to-english/translation/

More info about the artist:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Zhang+Songmao

This phrase seems more informative:

"我已搜了几百张照片了,无一大体一致的景物照片。此图是张松茂先生的原创画作是可能极大的事情。"

I think it says:

"I have found hundreds of photos without a broadly consistent picture of the scene. This design is Mr. Zhang Songmao's original paintings of great things that are possible."

Who is the artist of the Ge Yuan coins? Is it Zhang Songmao? Is there a controversy brewing over who the real artist was for the Ge Yuan design?

More info:

"版权肯定会有的,但是一是淘宝抄袭满天飞,二是上币用的应该是有授权,三是如果出现问题只能追究上币也与我们无关,四是无论如何以后我们都会严谨了在严谨坚持推行原创"

Which I'm guessing means:

"Firstly, copyright credit should be given, but on Taobao plagiarism is everywhere. Secondly, if the coin design is used it should be authorized. Thirdly, if the problem can only be held on the coin it has nothing to do with us. Fourthly, in any case in the future we will be rigorous and strict with insistence on pursuing the original artwork."

Interesting! Maybe someone else can give better translations?

fwang2450 gave this link for the painted plates, which I screenshotted:

http://www.taocang365.com/shop/html/?599.html

He then said this "上币的个园张冠李戴了" which means something about "mistaken identity".
 

Offline badon

I was having trouble attaching a large screenshot image, so here's the Mozilla Archive Format of the website fwang2450 linked to.
« Last Edit: 2016 Feb 25, 02:18:11 AM by badon »
 

Offline badon

Here's the images "hidden" in 7zip archive. I suspect the forum software is choking on the extra long dimensions of the  screenshot, so this should work.
 

Offline badon

I did some more research and it appears the original artist for this design is actually the porcelain plate painter Zhang Songmao. The painting was made in 1988 or 1989, and I found several sales on ebay. This one, 401032898177, sold for only $5.25 and it contains detailed information:

Quote
Bradford Exchange Collectors Plate Bradex: 10-I50-2.5 - # 5 - Gardens of Harmonious Pleasure from the series Scenes from the Summer Palace by Zhang Song Mao - Imperial Cheng Te Chen in original double box with COA.

The plate measures 8½" in diameter and is double boxed.  It has the Certificate of Authenticity and a brochure regarding the artist/subject.

Outer box is date stamped Sep. 22, 1989.

The company that originally manufactured or distributed the plate was this one:

http://www.bradfordexchange.com/

You can search for the "Bradex number" on the internet to find lots more references:

https://www.google.com/search?q=10-I50-2.5

This site is particularly rich with some basic facts:

http://www.hawkeyeplates.com/imperial-ching-te-chen.html

It says each plate design was in production for 175 days, with 8 plates in the whole set. The set is called "Scenes from the Summer Palace", and they were in production from 1988 to 1990, when the last plate was produced. The information is formatted with the production run duration (175 days for all of them), the Bradex number, the year the plate was produced (88 for 1988 etc), the plate's title, and finally the price if you want to buy them:

175 days 10-I50-2.1 88 Marble Boat $48
175 days 10-I50-2.2 88 Jade Belt Bridge $48
175 days 10-I50-2.3 89 Hall that Dispels the Clouds $45
175 days 10-I50-2.4 89 Long Promenade, The $55
175 days 10-I50-2.5 89 Garden of Harmonious Pleasure $55
175 days 10-I50-2.6 89 Great Stage, The $48
175 days 10-I50-2.7 89 Seventeen Arch Bridge $55
175 days 10-I50-2.8 90 Boaters on Kumming Lake $55

This site has photos of each plate in the set, and much higher prices:

http://www.theplatelady.com/oriental.htm

There are several items on ebay right now, but it took me a while to formulate some sophisticated searches that can find them all:

* Search ebay for Zhang Songmao's Summer Palace plates.
* Search ebay for Zhang Songmao's Summer Palace plates recently sold.

As you can see from the list of sold items (20 at the moment), you can safely ignore the high prices because these sell dirt cheap for as little as $5 each if you're patient. However, I suspect the badon effect might take hold for these plates and this particular artist, and if art pricing happens for Chinese coin, this artist's work might become a lot more valuable. This was "cheap Chinese junk" in the 1980's and 1990's, but now Zhang Songmao's work is on the government of China's official coins! If his work was plagiarized, it's possible he doesn't even know how famous he is!

You can bet that if the artist doesn't know how famous he is, the collectors of his art probably don't know either. If you're interested in betting on art pricing for China's coinage, it might be smart to grab a set of these plates to go with your Classical Gardens coin collection. This is a very fascinating development! It's interesting stories like this that make collectors love the coins they collect.
 

Offline AbeLinkin

This is fascinating. Great work on compiling all the information like you have. It will be interesting to see how this information is received by the community. I imagine we will see a lot of varying opinions unfold on the matter over the next few weeks. I know my first reaction was to buy one of those plates... so that's exactly what I did. Ha!: 151985151468

Edit by badon: Linkify.
« Last Edit: 2016 Feb 25, 04:18:08 AM by badon »
 

Offline badon

I just found a book on Amazon.com that is all about the artist, so maybe he's already pretty famous in China?: Zhang Songmao Porcelain Paintings(Chinese Edition). The book is by "SHAO JI MEI ZHU BIAN", and the Amazon listing claims it was published in 2007. If people care about Zhang Songmao's porcelain paintings enough to write books about them 20 years later, then I think we're on the right track for choosing artists that might be worth learning about, and maybe investing in their artwork. How do we buy his ORIGINAL porcelain paintings, instead of the mass-produced plates?

I have attached a photo of Zhang Songmao from the screenshotted site in my previous posts. You can see that he's hand-painting ordinary ceramic tiles of the kind that you might find on a kitchen counter top or in a bathroom. I have had hand-painted tiles produced for use in my home before, and although it's expensive, it's not too crazy expensive. For an artist that wants to make money as an artist, it's a great way to get plenty of work if the price is right.

Although most artists doing this kind of grunt work may never be worth more than a basic hourly wage for the art they produce, sometimes you get an artist like Zhang Songmao that becomes famous, and suddenly that kitchen counter top that you prepare your sandwiches on is worth a fortune. I would want to talk to an expert about this before I would do anything drastic, but I suspect there might be good profits in tracking down the homes that have Zhang Songmao's painted tiles in them, and carefully removing them so they can be remounted on a suitable portable surface (that looks like a picture frame), and ostentatiously displaying them and protecting them from wear-and-tear damage.

I've never tried to remove ceramic tiles that way, so maybe it's not possible to remove them without damaging them. In that case, they might be better left where they are. What would you do if someone knocked on your door and asked to buy your bathroom? Not your house, because they only want your bathroom! Haha!
 

Offline badon

This is fascinating. Great work on compiling all the information like you have. It will be interesting to see how this information is received by the community. I imagine we will see a lot of varying opinions unfold on the matter over the next few weeks. I know my first reaction was to buy one of those plates... so that's exactly what I did. Ha!: 151985151468

Oh man, you beat me to it! That plate didn't come up in my searches, or I might have grabbed it myself! I found another one that's about twice the price: 331484295807. Should I buy it? I don't even collect the Classical Gardens..but what if this particular plate soars in value now that it has an important place in China's art and numismatic history?

I think someone must have noticed me researching this topic because the Ge Yuan coins have started to disappear from ebay today: 151994116311, 161934780422. Those are kind of expensive ones too, from dragonzeng168. They have sold well, but still somewhat slowly due to their high price. There hasn't been 2 sales in one day since December 2015!

And, ggoodluck2013 has added them to his inventory too, which is really unusual because he specializes in being way ahead of the market in identifying important older rarities that are unknown to the market. Hmm...He does have a reputation for being 1 step ahead of everyone... I'll admit one reason I decided to research these Ge Yuan coins a bit further was because I saw his new listing for the Ge Yuan coins: 131735761495. I figured there had to be something special about them that has been overlooked so far...and I guess I figured out what it is! VERY EXCITING!
 

Offline AbeLinkin



I've never tried to remove ceramic tiles that way, so maybe it's not possible to remove them without damaging them.

Neither have I, but I imagine if they were really valuable as a piece of art, cutting out the whole floor or surface they are stuck too and then framing it that way might be the best viable solution. You can always fix a floor, countertop, or backsplash, but risking braking just one tile out of a tapestry of tiles by trying to remove them individually could be disastrous if they are truly considered works of art and extremely valuable.
 

Offline badon

Some better searches:

* Search ebay for Ge Yuan Garden of Harmonious Pleasures
* Search ebay for Ge Yuan sold items

There are still some cheap plates on ebay! What to do...what to do...
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Oh man, you beat me to it! That plate didn't come up in my searches, or I might have grabbed it myself! I found another one that's about twice the price: 331484295807. Should I buy it? I don't even collect the Classical Gardens..but what if this particular plate soars in value now that it has an important place in China's art and numismatic history?

Yeah. after I read your post I visited the Plate Ladies website and just copied and pasted the name of the plate into eBay's search field and to my surprise a few turned up in the search result. The first two were the more expensive one's and I would have bought one of those until I noticed the cheaper one. So then it was a no brainer. As far as buying the other one goes, had this cheaper one not been there I would have gladly bought that one. So I'd say go for it.

I look at it this way - The story is great with room to evolve even further and I can imagine having both the coin and the plate on display and the story behind it all to back it up. That's a lot of great dimension! I look forward to the first person who has both the coin and the plate in pictures posted to one of the forums. That will really stir things up. Everyone will want a matching plate for their coin after that. It's too good to pass up in my opinion.
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Here you go. I've found another one a little cheaper: 161865164156

Edit by badon: Linkify.
« Last Edit: 2016 Feb 25, 05:44:39 AM by badon »
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Here you go. I've found another one a little cheaper: 161865164156

And... they're sold.

Well that was fun! I'm guessing you decided to go through with it, or I hope you did. Otherwise someone else is playing along in this little adventure behind the scenes.

I decided to pick up one of thincat00's silver PF70's while I was at it too. Hope it gets here in time. I want to be that first person posting pictures of that plate and coin together, but deservedly so it should be you badon. Or at the very least the first time it happens it happens here on this forum and by one of us. lol!

Edit by badon: Linkify.
« Last Edit: 2016 Feb 25, 05:44:54 AM by badon »
 

Offline badon

It wasn't me that grabbed it. I took a break from coins to get some grub. There are spies among us, watching everything!
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Wow... very interesting. It appears the badon effect is in full swing.
 

Offline badon

It might have been members of the Classical Gardens QQ group in China that grabbed it. I pasted a link to this topic there, and they're all awake and doing their evening hobby time (it was about 9 PM in Hong Kong). Meanwhile, people in the West were still sleeping or just beginning their work day. I just talked to dragonzeng168, and he said the ebay price was good on the plates. I didn't compare prices myself (convert RMB to USD), but if some of those ebay listings are cheaper than China prices, it would make sense for the buyers in China to grab them.
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Here's another in a seemingly nice frame. No certificate or box, but offer option is available: 272142019960

Here's the plate in a set of 4 plates at a pretty good price, again no certificates or box, but it too has Make An Offer option:  252294900152

Edit by badon: Linkify.

« Last Edit: 2016 Feb 25, 06:56:09 AM by badon »
 

Offline badon

It's kind of interesting the Classical Gardens QQ group demoted the Lan Ting garden to second place after the Ge Yuan was minted. The Lan Ting was considered the best design in the whole series, until the Ge Yuan took the #1 spot away. I wonder how much was known about that from the beginning? Was it a surprise to discover it was taken from an older artwork? So many questions.
 

Offline trouble

It wasn't me that grabbed it. I took a break from coins to get some grub. There are spies among us, watching everything!

This non-fiat coin is best of the Classical garden even it has copyright issue. no one care in china.

Edit by badon: medal = non-fiat coin.
« Last Edit: 2016 Feb 29, 06:59:05 PM by badon »
 

Offline badon

I agree, it is very beautiful, and I can see why the mint would rip off the design. We should make a list of known design rip-offs. Here's the ones I can think of at the moment:

* 1995 1 oz silver panda proof from Taiwan's 1994 1 oz silver panda proof.
* 2014 Macau expo from 2015 3rd panda expo (3rd panda expo was designed first, but not minted until 2015).
* 2016 Classical Gardens Ge Yuan from 1988 collector plate painting by Zhang Songmao.

Any others?
 

Offline badon

 

Offline AbeLinkin

Well, my plate has arrived and I have to say it really is quite nice. As soon as my coins arrive I will be sure to post some pictures.

It looks like some more listings of the Garden of Harmonious Pleasures plates have surfaced with box and COA's, but no longer at the cheaper prices. Funny that both new listings are out of Washington State.

111921411864

272152334401

Edit by badon: Linkify.
« Last Edit: 2016 Mar 01, 03:41:06 PM by badon »
 

Offline badon

The collectors of artistic plates can be pretty fanatical. They would go nuts for these if they knew what we know. I'm not sure what would happen then, but it's entirely possible the plates themselves could be good investments, along with the coins.
 

Offline AbeLinkin

I think so. At the very least the Garden of Harmonious Pleasures plate has excellent potential given the recent information that's come to light regarding the Ge Yuan coin having copied it's design (blatantly I might add) and the copied design taking first place in the Chinese Gardens series.

The plate is so cheap in comparison to the coin why wouldn't you want a matching plate for it simply to tell the story? That's value enough alone for me. The potential that the plate itself could go up in value is just an added bonus as far as I'm concerned. But it's also scenarios like these that I look for when trying to determine if something could potentially go up in value and based on that I would say the likelihood is very good.
 

Offline badon

I agree completely. Although popularity can be taken for granted when an entire market becomes popular - leaving only rarity as the dominant coin investing fundamental - some coins can become even more popular, and there's no limit to how high prices can go when a single coin stands out from all the rest. There are lots of things that can make a coin unusually popular, but one of the most reliable ones is simply having an interesting history. The more suspense and surprise plot twists in the story, the more it inspires the imaginations of collectors who want to become a part of the story by owning a piece of it.

We have a lot more research to do on this topic. Who is Zhang Songmao? Is he still alive? Is he still producing artwork? Are there original artworks by him out in the world somewhere? What is his story? Does he have any interesting suspense and surprise plot twists in his life or career?

You know what? I think somebody needs to contact the company and ask for more information about Zhang Songmao. Do we want them to know what we know? Might be a good idea to keep this quiet for a while, haha. Although China doesn't care about plagiarism, the USA does, and they might go so far as to block import of the Classical Gardens series (or all Chinese coins!) if the company complains about the plagiarism. I actually think this will be good for the Bradford Exchange's business, but they might feel legally compelled to defend their copyrights (use it or lose it is how it works in the USA). And, artists tend to be homicidally offended when other artists rip off their work, although maybe in a while, it will improve the prestige of Zhang Songmao.

When I have a spare moment, I will contact the company to ask for more information. The people at LBC are talking about how some coins are never being offered in the West: Re: MCC LIST #183: 2014, collectors, pullback 9 reasons, food, coin-medal-whatever. This might end up being yet another coin that Westerners will be unable to buy.
 

Offline AbeLinkin

I think the Plate Lady needs to be brought in on this. She might be able to shed some light on the artist or at the very least put us in touch with someone who would know more about him and the company that produced the plates. Of course after she hears about what's going on she might also be the catalyst to this thing blowing up in the plate collecting community.
 

Offline AbeLinkin

So the day has finally come. Here, together in one place for the vary first time, are both the Garden of Harmonious Pleasures plate (designed by Master Artisan Zhang Song Mao sometime around 1989) and the newly realized "mistaken identity" coin, the 2015 Ge Yuan Garden 2 oz. silver coin from the Classic Gardens Series. A pairing probably never intended to have been brought together, but what a beautiful pair they make:
 

Offline AbeLinkin

An insert in English is included along with the plate that tells a little of artist Zhang Song Mao's life and his achievements at the time of printing (1989). It's possible the information it provides might lead to finding out more about the artist and where he might be now and if he is still alive or not. The insert reads:

Master Artisan Zhang Song Mao

   Zhang Song Mao was born in 1934 and has worked in the field of ceramic art design and painting for more than 40 years. With the encouragements of his family, he started to learn the ancient techniques of ceramic over-glaze painting at the age of 12.

   After many years of study, he became particularly proficient at landscape and figure studies in the traditional Chinese style. In 1951, he won the first of many awards, a first prize in Jingdezhen Ceramics Arts Campaign. In 1956, he designed tea sets for the Chinese embassies, and in 1959, he won another first prize for his vase design. In recent years, Zhang Song Mao crafted a two-metre floral plate for the National Arts and Crafts Show, and created a wall painting for the Jiang Xi Hall in the People's Meeting Hall in Beijing.

   His name is published in the Dictionary of Chinese Famous Artists and, at present, he is Director of the Jingdezhen City Arts and Crafts Association and a ceramic art director at the China Light Industrial Arts and Crafts Association.
 

Offline badon

Excellent photos! If a picture is worth a thousand words, then what is a picture of a thousand words worth? :) These are the first clear photos I have seen of this plate. On the back of it, it says "© 1989 Imperial Jingdezhen Porcelain" - I'm guessing that is the artist's company? Do you have scans of all the paperwork you can upload, and photos of each side of the box, etc, for a comprehensive photographic record of these fascinating parts of China's art history?

I shared a link to your post with China's Classical Gardens QQ group, so I know they are aware of your research on these plates. The close-up photos of the coin on top of the plate are good enough to show the "dots" of a mechanical printing method. I looked for this evidence because I noticed each letter was different in the phrase "Artistic object. Precious metal pigments may be toxic. Do not use for eating.". I thought it might be hand-written, but it's not, it's just a print of the original hand-written work. I have to wonder, is that what the artist's handwriting looks like in English, or did someone else write that phrase?
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Here are some photos of the outer box. I've only included images where writing is present. The rest of the sides of the box are blank:
 

Offline AbeLinkin

There are three inserts included along with the plate. 2 written in Chinese and one in English. The one in English covers a description of all the plates offered in the series, plus a small bio of Master Artisan Zhang Song Mao. This first of the two inserts written in Chinese, I assume is the Chinese version of the English inset. Here are some up-close photos of the first Chinese insert:
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Here is the English insert. I am pretty sure that what is written here is the English version of what is written in the Chinese insert from the previous post:
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Here is the second Chinese insert. I am guessing that this is the plates COA. Notice the characters written in red. These have been done by hand and the impressions in the paper and flow of ink matches that of a ballpoint pen:
 

Offline AbeLinkin

 

Offline badon

I think now we know who bought all the other plates on ebay. The Classical Gardens QQ group must be following our discussions here because right now they're posting photos of the plates next to the coins just like you did, AbeLinkin. Cool! 8)
 

Offline badon

I'm guessing the handwritten red ink is from some quality assurance technician certifying that the plate passed inspection. The black ink might be the signature of the artist. I will ask the QQ group if they can translate the handwritten text.
 

Offline AbeLinkin

I think now we know who bought all the other plates on ebay. The Classical Gardens QQ group must be following our discussions here because right now they're posting photos of the plates next to the coins just like you did, AbeLinkin. Cool! 8)

This is cool! I think this plate could end up being a cornerstone to a serious Ge Yuan collection. It will be interesting to see if the plate collectors out there catch on to this and they start asking ridiculous prices for them. What will be really interesting to see is the first person who sells both the coin and the plate together in one listing on eBay. I will be curious to see what kind of price someone might put on that.

I haven't done a hunt for the plate in a while. I need to check and see if any new ones have become available.
 

Offline badon

Here's what has been said so far, still waiting for translations of the handwritten text, but I'll post another photo from the QQ group in the meantime:

badon
@明月清泉 @一路上有你~龚 https://forum.coincompendium.com/index.php?topic=4562.msg20385#msg20385
Can someone translate the handwritten Chinese text to English? https://forum.coincompendium.com/index.php?topic=4562.msg20380#msg20380

麟龍-陈知龙(8533404)
badon的请求比尔和叶帅能搞定,这是很难得的资料

麟龍-陈知龙(8533404)
中国工艺品进出口公司早期还是很有眼光的,我还有套1979年的出土文物银章
 

Offline AbeLinkin

If someone is looking for the plate this listing might be your current best bet at purchasing one with the box, coa, and literature that accompanies it at an affordable price. Note, the buyer accepts offers: 272159398523. The seller has 3 available. I'm tempted to send an offer for all three myself.

Here's another with box and literature on auction that could go cheap depending on shipping charges for your country 222048024679

Edit by badon: Linkify.
« Last Edit: 2016 Mar 11, 11:58:16 PM by badon »
 

Offline badon

Collectors in the Classical Gardens QQ group are talking about their interest in possibly collecting the whole series of Zhang Songmao's plates. Not everyone is impressed with them, though, because they're machine-made copies and not hand-made paintings. This hints at the possibility that some of the more sophisticated connoisseurs of the Classical Gardens series might be interested in tracking down the original paintings, and purchasing them.

林海(422483960)
这个瓷盘是中国陶
瓷工艺大师张松茂的作品,此系列一套共有8个盘子。

滇 边城游子((3040372903)
收齐它

小李飞刀团长—(1602999401)
这些盘子都是盗版,毫无价值可言
甚至都不是绘的,全是贴花
 

Offline badon

Zhang Songmao's art continues to inspire a younger generation of artists. This hand-drawn pen art was posted in the Classical Gardens QQ group in China. One of the participants there says he spent a whole day drawing it. Nice!

麟龍-陈知龙(8533404)
折腾了一整天 :D
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Well, if you can't find the plate, draw your own! The fun continues. Well done to whoever the artist may be.

I would imagine finding the originals to these plates will be pretty difficult. I would love to see an original of Songmao's artwork of any kind turn up somewhere. It would be great if someone could track down an aficionado of his works or even better a gallery that might have access to sellers of his works. I spent a good amount of time searching the internet for information on Songmao, as well as keywords found in the English insert from the plate and found little information in English about him.
 

Offline badon

 

Offline trouble

So the day has finally come. Here, together in one place for the vary first time, are both the Garden of Harmonious Pleasures plate (designed by Master Artisan Zhang Song Mao sometime around 1989) and the newly realized "mistaken identity" coin, the 2015 Ge Yuan Garden 2 oz. silver coin from the Classic Gardens Series. A pairing probably never intended to have been brought together, but what a beautiful pair they make:

hehe they change the bird to duck in the coin so it is not right to say fully copy ;)
 

Offline AbeLinkin

hehe they change the bird to duck in the coin so it is not right to say fully copy ;)

Good eye Trouble. I hadn't noticed that. The Ge Yuan is a true original again! :)
 

Offline badon

Check it out AbeLinkin, now sellers on ebay are offering "sets" of coins with collector plates in fancy framed display cases: 291729518072. I must say, I'm impressed at how far this discussion has reached even though only a very small number of people are actually participating here. The plates have gotten a lot of attention in China since we started discussing them here.
 

Offline AbeLinkin

Check it out AbeLinkin, now sellers on ebay are offering "sets" of coins with collector plates in fancy framed display cases: 291729518072. I must say, I'm impressed at how far this discussion has reached even though only a very small number of people are actually participating here. The plates have gotten a lot of attention in China since we started discussing them here.

Wow! This is crazy! I had imagined some sort of scenario playing out in the distant future similar to this, but to see it form so quickly is amazing. I wonder if the blending and appreciation of these two ares of collecting has been seen as much more attractive to the Chinese market than expected? Porcelain is deeply rooted in the Chinese culture and history and the opportunity to blend porcelain art with the beauty of modern Chinese coins may be too attractive an opportunity to resist. This could be some sort of new collector "fusion" taking place here. This could really turn into something.
 

Offline badon

Yes, it really could turn into something! You just described a few of the basic reasons why I think the Chinese coin market might be the first one to achieve art pricing. Chinese people's appreciation of art seems to be deeply rooted in their culture, and it's quite normal for ordinary people to own art, unlike much of the West where very few people ever buy original artworks.

I see this topic about the porcelain plates, and other topics like this one, 2015 2 oz silver lunar goat panda rare COA with artists names, as part of a big-picture trend toward valuing coins not only because of rarity, but also because of the artist who designed it. When we think of numismatic pricing, we think of it as being superior to bullion pricing, where different fundamentals prevail in setting the prices. People who don't understand numismatic pricing can be completely baffled when they see coins selling for a lot more than bullion value. Art pricing could possibly become superior to numismatic pricing, and already even now we can see many coins that are not very rare, but they have much higher prices than similar coins that are a lot rarer. Art pricing will probably baffle coin collectors the same way numismatic pricing baffles bullion silver and gold stackers.

Of course, none of this is conclusive yet, and all the hints and signs we see now may never coalesce into true art pricing where the name of the artist sets the price more than the rarity does. Even in that case, if art pricing never happens, artistic factors do often play a role, even if it's not a dominant role. For example, the 2015 lunar panda COA with the artists names on it is worth more than other COA's, but it's not worth more than the coin itself...not yet. What I would like to see is some artists being elevated to revered status after they die, with art collectors and coin collectors chasing their artworks. The #1 reason this is not happening right now is because not enough time has passed, and most or all of the artists from the earliest days are barely old enough to retire.

Like many things in China right now, when it happens, it will probably happen fast.
 

Offline badon

I found some more photos from the classical gardens QQ group posted recently to show off the connection between the Ge Yuan coin design and the original plate painting. The plate continues to appear to be an integral part of a complete collection, and demonstrated by someone's collection arranged as a circle of coins around the plate.