Author Topic: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm  (Read 968 times)

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Offline Jeru

Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« on: 2013 Mar 26, 05:30:15 pm »
CCT330: 2000 1 oz silver panda frosted
CCT3788: 2000 1 oz silver panda frosted long belly

Maybe we need to add another subtype under parent type CCT330, for the normal belly type?  It's a little confusing, I think, if all the normal belly/non-long belly pandas will go under the CCT330.

Please confirm.  Thanks!
"...but the greatest of these is love." -1 Corinthians 13:13
 

Offline badon

Re: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« Reply #1 on: 2013 Mar 27, 01:09:50 am »
Confirmed. I think someone was doing research on those, and didn't complete adding the other variety type. Good catch.
 

Offline Jeru

Re: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« Reply #2 on: 2013 Mar 27, 01:34:20 am »
Thanks!

CCT927: 2000 1 oz silver panda frosted normal belly
CCT330: 2000 1 oz silver panda frosted
CCT3788: 2000 1 oz silver panda frosted long belly

(So 2000 1 oz silver panda frosted normal belly is the new CCT927. Cool! 8))
"...but the greatest of these is love." -1 Corinthians 13:13
 

Offline Vsheilley

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Re: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« Reply #3 on: 2013 Mar 27, 01:41:17 am »
badon,

I create a topic here http://forum.coincompendium.com/index.php?topic=177.0 and you said if i can pm SANDAC about it so I message SANDAC  and he said "Instead of creating a "normally belly" type for the rest of the 2000 panda S10Y frosted, can we leave all the un-sorted specimen in CCT330 as they were?  The higher level can serve as holding area for un-sorted specimen as well as specimen without NGC/PCGS images." That's why i didn't create a  normal belly type..


sheilley
« Last Edit: 2013 Mar 27, 06:16:59 am by Vsheilley »
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Offline badon

Re: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« Reply #4 on: 2013 Mar 27, 02:07:41 am »
I think SANDAC wanted them left in place because he hadn't finished his research on them yet. Jeru is capable of finishing SANDAC's research, so I think she should go ahead and do the sorting, and searching for new varieties. But, I don't know for sure what SANDAC was researching. Maybe there's some other reason I haven't thought of that would be helpful for him, if we left the specimens where they are until he can resume his research. Vsheilley, can you ask SANDAC to view this discussion and give his opinion on what should be done? Jeru, you can wait until we hear from SANDAC before you attempt to resume his research. He might have something specific in mind that he wants to do himself.
 

Offline Jeru

Re: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« Reply #5 on: 2013 Mar 27, 02:19:23 am »
But is it okay that I already added the normal belly type and have lst'd some parts of the introduction in the long belly type to normal belly and parent type?
"...but the greatest of these is love." -1 Corinthians 13:13
 

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« Reply #6 on: 2013 Mar 27, 06:12:14 am »
I have about 200,000 MCC entries and I understand dc55232 has about 500,000.  As you all know, MCC has great many variations in frosting and mirrored field, and there are also many specimen with no images.  So I thought to encourage data entry, we should set aside a "staging area" for all unsorted varieties and entries with no images.  So I thought CCT330 may serve as the staging area for the yr2000 silver 1oz frosted ring Panda.  Perhaps there is a way to designate these specimen as "waiting to be sorted"?

Jeru, I encourage you to continue your study into the various varieties.  NGC photos are not all that great, so you may not want to create a new variety until you can consistently see the same differences in multiple specimen.  To help you in that regard, I do read your questions and upload what specimen I have that you are currently studying such as the 1986 1/10 gold panda and the 2003 mirrored/frosted bamboo.

I'm a variety hound myself, and I've learned over the past couple years to temporarily set aside the subtle frost/mirror variations (putting them into a staging area), and concentrate on easily identifiable and distinct varieties.  I call that the "fuzzy photo" criteria--I must be able to distinguish the differences based on low-res eBay photo before I'll call it a variety.  It is a matter of prioritization, there are so many varieties already with the fuzzy photo method, we should tackle that first.  It is a suggestion only, CC has more manpower (and womanpower :) ) that it is possible to tackle the more subtle variations.
 

Offline Jeru

Re: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« Reply #7 on: 2013 Mar 27, 06:39:19 am »
Yeah, I think so too that CCT330 can be the staging area.  If one can't tell if the coin is a long or normal belly variety then just add it under CCT330.  But I think you've already pointed out and have clearly illustrated the difference between the two.  So, is it now okay to sort all specimens under CCT330 if they are normal or long belly?

And I'm just really always basically asking "They don't look the same.  Why?  Are they varieties?", but yes, when you're curious you ask, when you ask you learn.  So, thanks! :)
"...but the greatest of these is love." -1 Corinthians 13:13
 

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« Reply #8 on: 2013 Mar 27, 06:45:22 am »
Specific to CCT330, the "long belly" is a distinct and easily identified variety, but there are in fact many other subtle variations.  CCT330 also has numerous obvious die cracks which is quite unusual for MCC and makes interesting study.  On top of that, it has at least two die-rotation variations, so it is a complex type to sort.

You folks are the ones doing the sorting day in and day out, so I'll leave the sorting to your discretion because I believe you guys will eventually come up with a consistent method.  I (and dc55232) will just feed you data.
 

Offline badon

Re: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« Reply #9 on: 2013 Mar 27, 05:09:39 pm »
I have about 200,000 MCC entries and I understand dc55232 has about 500,000.  As you all know, MCC has great many variations in frosting and mirrored field, and there are also many specimen with no images.  So I thought to encourage data entry, we should set aside a "staging area" for all unsorted varieties and entries with no images.  So I thought CCT330 may serve as the staging area for the yr2000 silver 1oz frosted ring Panda.  Perhaps there is a way to designate these specimen as "waiting to be sorted"?

What you suggest is the best way to handle unsorted specimens. If one "coin type" branches out into multiple "variety types", then the unsorted or unknown variety specimens should be left in the "root coin type". I think we're all still learning how to handle all this data we're collecting, including me. Eventually we will figure out the best practices for interacting with the data in the Coin Compendium. For now, we don't even have standardized words and phrases to describe a thing like a "root coin type" and "variety type", so I guess we'll have to figure that out as we go too.

Right now, the mintage estimates code assumes everything has been sorted, so it is wrong in those cases where it's not all sorted yet. That is something for me to fix. Continue using the "root coin type" as a staging area. I don't think there's anything else we should do to designate those specimens as "waiting to be sorted", since the CC should do that for us automatically.

I have reached the point where I have to accept that I can do no more than I'm already doing (most of my time is spent ensuring the CC remains funded), so these bugs and new features are probably going to have to be done by someone else. I am already in the process of formulating a plan to achieve some of our goals. One thing worth studying is this (also Google for Pywikipediabot to find much more info):

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Pywikipediabot

The CC is growing fast, and it's already so large that it's becoming difficult to fund efficiently, so we need more automation. We already use Pywikipediabot to maintain the CC's infrastructure I built, so if you're interested in finding ways to do more with less effort, Pywikipediabot is probably the most advanced way to begin.

I also use Jitbit Macro Recorder, which is very simple and very powerful. It's much easier to use than Pywikipediabot, and can achieve a lot in the same ways. In fact, it might be possible to use its image recognition features to automatically identify and sort varieties! That would be an interesting experiment. I think maybe I'll try testing it on something easy, like 1998 large dates, just to see if it can do the sorting with a low error rate. If so, then at the very least, in might be capable of finding and flagging coins that could be incorrectly sorted, for a human to look at later.

Another tool to look at is Actionaz. It is free, and also quite powerful, but not as easy to use as Jitbit.

http://www.jitbit.com/macro-recorder/
http://www.jmgr.net/
 

Offline Jeru

Re: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« Reply #10 on: 2013 Apr 03, 05:10:36 pm »
Uhm, so is it now okay to begin sorting all the specimens under CCT330?
"...but the greatest of these is love." -1 Corinthians 13:13
 

Offline badon

Re: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« Reply #11 on: 2013 Apr 04, 01:26:59 am »
I will leave that decision for SANDAC, if he prefers.
 

Offline Jeru

Re: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« Reply #12 on: 2013 Apr 04, 02:13:03 am »
Okay. Copy.
"...but the greatest of these is love." -1 Corinthians 13:13
 

Offline Jeru

Re: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« Reply #13 on: 2015 Nov 12, 10:25:50 pm »
I will leave that decision for SANDAC, if he prefers.

Are we still going to wait for SANDAC to decide when to sort out all the specimens under CCT330: 2000 1 oz silver panda frosted?
"...but the greatest of these is love." -1 Corinthians 13:13
 

Offline badon

Re: Another subtype under CCT330, please confirm
« Reply #14 on: 2016 Aug 04, 11:40:17 am »
I guess not, since we haven't seen him here for a few years now.